Interview with Agnes Tupou, ABC News Radio

AGNES TUPOU: Now Australia's Minister for Climate Change Chris Bowen is on a Pacific tour to drum up support for his government's bid to host a major global climate change conference next year.

The push to host the UN conference known as COP31 recently hit a snag when the only other contender, Turkiye, refused to bow out of the race as many had expected.

Australia wants to host the talks in partnership with Pacific nations, and many leaders have publicly supported the idea.

So what's Chris Bowen hoping to achieve during his visits to Tuvalu, Palau, Samoa and Marshall Islands this week? Well, we can ask him ourselves because he joins us on the line now from the Marshall Islands. With that I say good morning, Minister, and welcome to Pacific Beat.

CHRIS BOWEN: Good morning, Agnes, thank you for having us on.

AGNES TUPOU: Absolutely. Look, as I mentioned, many Pacific leaders have already pledged support for Australia hosting COP31. I mean what are you hoping comes out of your trip this week?

CHRIS BOWEN: So this trip isn't primarily about our COP31 bid. Obviously I'm updating my ministerial colleagues as I go about the state of the discussions with Turkiye and the process, and the situation remains we have very, very strong support for our bid from our group, the Western Europe and Others group which Australia's a member of, and we have the majority support in that group.

But the system is meant to work on consensus and that means the need to have ongoing discussions with Turkiye. And I've been updating the ministerial colleagues about the nature of those conversations, and the Pacific remains extremely supportive of our bid, has been all the way through, and remains extremely supportive.

But I'm also - while I'm here in the Pacific, pursuing bilateral partnerships on the energy transition, made good progress on that, including here in RMI, and off to Palau shortly, and general update on where we're all at on our decarbonisation journey and what we can do to support each other is the general approach I've taken as Minister with my Pacific colleagues, and that certainly continues.

AGNES TUPOU: Well, Minister, you know, in regard to COP31, I mean are you actually seeking these nations help to pressure Turkiye into bowing out? I mean if so, can they help?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well they've already been doing that. They've already been making their views very clear to Turkiye and to other nations that they want to see the COP31 in Australia in partnership with the Pacific. I mean I couldn't have asked for more from our Pacific colleagues. They have made that very clear. They've written to Turkiye, they've offered to do more when and if they can.

But the situation is not like we need more support, it's not like we need other countries to come in and support us because we have very, very strong support across the world. But we treat Turkiye with respect. They've indicated they don't wish to withdraw their nomination despite the fact, you know, it's pretty clear we have the overwhelming bulk of support within the Western Europe and others group. You know, that's their right.

We'll continue to talk to them about that and potential outcomes there, and we'll continue to update the Pacific on how we're going and what options we have in front of us. I've been doing that in my private meetings with my ministerial colleagues, as I do from time to time when either they come to Australia or on WhatsApp or in any other form. I keep them advised and consult with them about various options. That's been a useful part of this trip, but it hasn't been the only part of the trip.

As I said, I wouldn't see this trip as a COP31-only trip. It's been also about other things like the APPET agreement I signed yesterday with Minister Luckjohn, the letter of intent to pursue that. What I'll be doing in Palau later today, supporting their transition. These have also been very important parts of the trip.

AGNES TUPOU: Thank you for that, Minister. Look, and I know you're saying the trip is not just about COP31, but I would like to just stay here on that topic, in the sense of but why do you think then Turkiye is not willing to step aside?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well look, I'm not going to sort of give a blow-by-blow description of my conversations with my Turkish counterpart. It's fair to say, you know, they say they are entitled, just as entitled to put their bid forward as we are, and that's true, they are entitled to do that.  

They have views about what we could bring to the table. We point out that the last few COPs have been in Egypt and then the UAE and then Azerbaijan and having another COP in that part of the world in short order would probably not be in the best interests of fairness and diversity of views.

There's never been a COP in the Pacific which is the region with the most at stake we would argue in climate change, and the small island developing states are really sort of split between the Pacific and the Caribbean.

We think the Pacific has a huge amount to bring to the table. Australia as COP President would ensure that the Pacific's issues are front and centre of the agenda with a big spotlight on them. You won't get that in other COPs around the world. You certainly won't get that in Turkiye, with all due respect, you won't get that in Brazil, nor do they claim to. That is something that can only be delivered in Australia, so that's something that we bring to the table.

Of course, you know, we'll also be talking about Australia's role in the global transition, our role and our intention to become a renewable energy superpower, be able to share our thoughts on our journeys there, some of the obstacles, headwinds, opportunities that we face. We think there's something to bring to the rest of the world there.

And that's the sort of message that I continue to pursue. So again, Turkiye is entitled to put their bid, entitled to stay in as long as they feel it prudent. We'd like to see this resolved as soon as possible so we can get on with planning, because this is a big undertaking. But we'll work with the system that we have, and we'll continue to talk to colleagues, Turkiye, our Pacific colleagues, our Western Europe and Other group colleagues, the whole bunch.

AGNES TUPOU: Yeah, Minister, but do you think Turkiye's looking for something in return if they were to withdraw from this race?

CHRIS BOWEN: Again, I'm not going to go into the blow-by-blow descriptions of my conversations with them. We've clearly indicated to them an outcome would be good which they are happy with, and we are happy with, but we haven't been able to reach that outcome yet.

You know, essentially the COP needs to be hosted in Australia. Australia will be the COP President in close consultation with the Pacific. We want to see all that happen.

Again, we'll keep talking to them and hopefully an outcome quite soon. I've kept my Pacific ministerial colleagues apprised as best I can of the nature of those conversations, the sorts of things that are being discussed. They're diplomatic conversations, they're not sort of public conversations. But, you know, the Pacific Ministers deserve to know where we're all up to. Of course that's been an element of my discussions on this trip but not the only element, far from it.

AGNES TUPOU: Yeah. The thing is also, you know, as you chase this bid, Minister, I know a lot of people would want to know, and this is the reality too, is what happens though if there is no consensus reached ahead or even during Cop 30 that is going to be Belem in November, what will happen then?

CHRIS BOWEN: Yeah. Well there's a process - I mean I very much hope we don't get to that. If the two countries can't resolve it there are options available, you know, and there are options which would involve the COP being held in Germany, there's options - which is the host of the UNFCCC, there's options which would involve, you know, ballot processes.

We're trying to avoid all that, but we're also trying to get the COP to come to Australia for the best interests of Australia, the best interests of the Pacific, and we think the best interests of the world.

AGNES TUPOU: And that's if you do secure the bid, Minister, what role will Pacific nations play I suppose in terms of co-hosting this event? Like will any of these meetings be physically held in the Pacific?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, there's options there which I'll talk to have been talking to the Pacific Ministers about for some time. You know, I've had two Talanoas with the Pacific Ministers over the last two years, we'll have another one later this year, where we have discussed some of those options. It's very hard though to lock that in until we've won the bid.

There's pre COP, there's other elements to the COP. There's all sorts of options. There's high level champions. There's all sorts of things that the Pacific   I want to see the Pacific front and centre in this COP, and that I've been talking to my Pacific ministerial counterparts and if we do lock this bid down, well we can then proceed with those conversations, lock that in and have some firm agreements.

AGNES TUPOU: Yeah, absolutely. Well thank you for that, Minister. Look, I just want to step aside and maybe ask, Minister, did you get to watch the Origin decider last night?

CHRIS BOWEN: I didn't I'm afraid, I was in my hotel room in the Marshall Islands doing other things, so I didn't get to see the State of Origin, but I have been briefed on this morning by my delegation.

AGNES TUPOU: Appreciate your time this morning, Minister, thank you so much for coming through and speaking to us and enjoy the rest of your trip there.

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, Agnes, I look forward to speaking to you in the future, hopefully as the host of COP31 because there's so much to do, but there's also, as I've stressed, other things that we're getting on with. An important agreement yesterday with RMI, another big investment this afternoon with Palau, to help with their energy transition, because we've got to help the Pacific nations with their energy systems as well. Australia's certainly front and centre in doing that.

AGNES TUPOU: Thank you again, Minister, appreciate your time this morning.

CHRIS BOWEN: Good on you, Agnes. Good on you. Cheers then, ta-ta.

AGNES TUPOU: Thank you. That is Australia's Minister for Climate Change Chris Bowen here on Pacific Beat.