Interview with Iskhandar Razak, ABC News Breakfast

ISKHANDAR RAZAK, HOST: From Parliament House in Canberra, Chris Bowen, thank you so much for your time. Why can't there be a moratorium on new coal and gas plants, as the Greens want, but are conceding in this case can't get through?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, good morning Isk. The position of the Greens is well known and the position of the Government is well known. And in the discussions we had, where we agreed pretty early that we shouldn't focus on the things we don't agree on, but focus on the things we do agree on, to take the nation forward and take a big step to ending 20 years of climate wars. And that's what's happened. And I do thank people from across the Parliament for working with the Government to make this reality. The Liberal Party have made themselves irrelevant to the process. That's a matter for them.
In relation to new coal and gas, our position is very clear. There are environmental approvals, there's financing hurdles for private companies to have to get over. There's economic hurdles. That's the way we approached this, the Greens have a different position. They'll continue to advocate that, the government will get on with our job.

HOST: There are reports out, recent reports, that kind of paint what we already knew the state of the environment is dire and getting worse. When you look at that report, why can we aim for higher than 43%? Why is that the base minimum?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, it's our target that we took to the election and it's the modelled the impact of all the policies. As I said, in Parliament the other day, targets are very important. They're easier set than met. What you’ve got to do is have the policies underpinning it. So we have that; whether it's reforms to the safeguard mechanism, reforms to rewiring the nation, our electric vehicle strategy, solar banks, community batteries, taking the government to net zero by 2050, all these things are very important to achieve it. And we've said to the United Nations, and we’ve put it very explicit in legislation, 43 is what we're aiming for. We hope and expect Australia will be able to do even better now that we have a government that gets it and importantly, a parliament that gets it, by sending the message to renewable energy investors from around the world, that Australia is open for business to become a renewable energy powerhouse. And we welcome investment in transmission, in storage and renewables. Because that is what this legislation is all about, sending that message and that very certain and stable policy framework. And I'm delighted that business and renewable groups and climate groups have welcomed so strongly the indications that this is now going to pass the Parliament.

HOST: But exactly how are we going to exceed 43%, when we are still going to be perhaps commissioning new coal and gas power plants who are major carbon emitters? It seems perhaps naive…

CHRIS BOWEN: Sorry, sorry Isk. No, that's just not right. With respect, we're going to take our energy system to 82% renewable. We've been very clear, it's the Liberal and National Party talking about new coal fired power plants, not the Labor Party. That is just not correct. When you talk about new gas and coal fired power stations, I’m going to pull you up. That's just not right. We've said, we'll build the Kurri Kurri plant and transitioning that to a green hydrogen plant as soon as is practicable. We won't be embarking on new coal fired power stations, that was the last mob.

HOST: When we are looking at the energy makeup, it is complicated however. We've got gas and coal, solar, wind, new technologies. The opposition, the Coalition, are talking about nuclear, do they have any point here at all? Is nuclear at all feasible or part of a future where we're looking at reducing carbon emissions in Australia?

CHRIS BOWEN: No.

HOST: Why?

CHRIS BOWEN: I mean, you know, when you hear somebody say nuclear has got to be part of the conversation, it's code for they know they can't win the argument they’re just trying to change the conversation. Nuclear is the most expensive form of energy. It's not just me who thinks that. A little organisation called the CSIRO has made that very, very clear in their latest report just weeks ago. The cheapest form of energy is mixed affirm renewables, the most expensive form of energy is nuclear. It is slow to deploy, renewables are fast to deploy. I do not know why anybody who wants to be taken seriously as an alternative government would embark on the economic illiteracy of suggesting that the way to reduce power prices or the way to transition to a net zero economy is to engage in the most expensive form of energy available and the one that is slowest to deploy. I mean, when you're in opposition, you've got a choice. You can make yourself a credible alternative and part of the conversation, or you can make yourself an irrelevant sideshow. Under Peter Dutton, with this sort of announcement that they're going to look at nuclear, they are an irrelevant sideshow.

HOST: There are some heart-warming reports, though about the state of the Great Barrier Reef and the state of coral there. Have you seen it and what are your thoughts?

CHRIS BOWEN: Look, I think when you're talking about the Great Barrier Reef or you're talking about any of our other very important natural wonders, that we have to protect that are impacted by climate change, we have two things agency and urgency. By which I mean it is not too late. It is not too late to act to save the Barrier Reef but it is urgent and we have to embark on the process. And I guess that takes me back to your first point about 43%. We have 89 months between now and 2030. That is not long. You know, we have had a decade of delay and denial, and we are starting to catch up in 2022 to do what we need to do by 2030. So we do have agency but we also have urgency. That's why it's important that the government doesn't waste a second and we're not. It's important that we pass this legislation, mainly to send the signal, as I said, to private sector investors around the world that when it comes to renewable energy, we're open for business. We’re going to take our energy system to 82% renewable by 2030. That's a big task in 89 months, but we're up for it. We're going to do it. We've got to build a transmission to support it. We've got to build the storage. It's a big task, and we're going to set about doing it.

HOST: Chris Bowen, thank you very much for your time. 

ENDS