Interview with Jenny Marchant and Dan Cox, ABC Newcastle

JENNY MARCHANT: When it comes to the issues that matter to you, climate change and our region’s future in energy production might be near the top of your list.

DAN COX: So local prosperity balanced with the health of the planet. One of the big issues right now. There’s a meeting of energy and climate ministers in the region today. Bringing them together is Chris Bowen. He’s the Federal Minister for Climate Change and Energy. Good morning, Minister.

CHRIS BOWEN: Good morning, Dan, how are you today? 

JENNY MARCHANT: We are doing well, thank you.

CHRIS BOWEN: Excellent.

JENNY MARCHANT: The Energy Climate Ministerial Council, what is this and why is it meeting in the Hunter?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, it’s actually the first time this council has actually met. We’ve always had an Energy Ministers’ meeting, obviously, dealing with big and important issues. But recently we decided to bring the climate ministers in. Now, some of us are the same person, so I’m the same person federally, but in some of the states they’re different people. So this is the first time we’ve had energy and climate ministers together and of course, Jenny, this is a big national task and we need to be all working together, federal, state, local, and we are, and this meeting updates us on all the things we’re working on together, what decisions we need to make etcetera. So, some big things on the agenda and we do this regularly and this is all what we need to do to come together in the national interest.

DAN COX: We’ve heard this week that you’ve opened community consultation on the proposed offshore wind power zone. One of six regions identified is the Hunter, and we hear concerns from the community about the effect it could have on marine life and shipping. Are you consulting on whether this should go ahead here or rather just how it should look and work here?

CHRIS BOWEN: Yeah, I am mainly consulted on where the zone should be. So we’ve announced our six zones. Hunter is second on the list, so we’ve declared the Gippsland already and that’s going, very, very well. But we want to make sure that the community has a chance to have their say, so I put out a map yesterday, which people can look at, about where the offshore wind would be. It’s for most of Newcastle, a long way aways, so 25 to 30 kms off the coast, so not something that is in your face. There’s some areas where it comes in closer to 10kms where can you still see it, but it’s not – similarly not just off the beach.

This is really important, Dan. This is about energy. This would create up to 8 gigawatts of power. That’s enough power for 6 million homes. It will create a lot of jobs. Because it’s so windy off the coast, these turbines need more maintenance, which means a lot more workers which means, of course, ships, so there’s jobs at the Port of Newcastle. The ships need maintenance et cetera. So, there’s 4,800 jobs directly during construction and 2,400 directly ongoing and more than that indirectly. And I know in my talks around the region, people like Tomago aluminium smelter, are very keen to happen to help them make their transition to renewable energy and keep those jobs going.

JENNY MARCHANT: So it is a matter of where within the zone the wind farm would go. Aren’t there certain requirements, though, that you have in mind?  It needs to be close to certain onshore infrastructure, doesn’t it?

CHRIS BOWEN: Yeah, one of the things we looked at when identifying the zones is where’s the grid strongest. Obviously, the grid’s very strong in the Hunter – the energy grid. There’s a lot of infrastructure around where we can pump energy into without massive upgrades to the grid. We also look, frankly, at areas undergoing economic change, which the Hunter has been and will continue to, so areas that could do with job creation, areas where there’s private sector interest in the wind farms. There’s lots of companies looking very seriously. So all these things are part of the consideration.

JENNY MARCHANT: But within the Hunter proposed area, you’re looking at where in that zone it would go and are there not areas that are better than others within that area, for instance off the shore of Newcastle or Lake Macquarie or Port Stephens? 

CHRIS BOWEN: So the map is out and people can have a look at that. And then I’ll consider people’s feedback whether the map needs to be changed. So, for example, when I was in Gippsland, I put out an area bigger than this, 28,000 square kilometres, and some people had some concerns about some of it and I read all the submissions and thought some of those concerns were fair enough so I pared that area back and made it smaller. Now, that’s the sort of process we’re going through now. So this is a real consultation process.

Within that zone, though, once I’ve declared the zone and it’s all finalised, that’s when the companies come forward and make their licence bid, their expression of interest, about where exactly within the zone they want to go. Obviously, they do all their, you know, research about the wind patterns. They have to do all their geo spatial checking about the sea floor, etcetera etcetera.

On your question about marine and shipping and birds, all that gets taken into account very seriously. You know, around the world offshore wind co exists with shipping, with whales, with commercial fishing, with recreational fishing. Indeed, the turbines can actually attract more fish, because fish like the turbines. So, you know, all that gets factored through. This is not about - this is for offshore wind and nobody else can go there. This is very, very different.

DAN COX: Chris Bowen is the Federal Minister for Climate Change and Energy on ABC Newcastle Breakfast this morning.

Minister, it now looks like the Kurri Kurri gas power plant won’t be operating until the end of 2024, given news this week AEMO warning of shortfalls when it comes to power by 2027 along the east coast. What are the delays there when it comes to a gas fired power plant at Kurri?

CHRIS BOWEN: It wouldn’t be the only construction project in Australia which is being delayed. It is being delayed. It’s not a decision. There’s been some flooding. There’s been some issues with supplies. You know, that is the situation and I just wanted to, as soon as I was advised of that it was going to run 12 months late, to tell everyone that that’s the case. I didn’t want to see it hidden. Snowy 2.0, the other big project, is running 18 months late and, unfortunately, that wasn’t made public until way too late when we came to Government. That had been the case for some time. I just prefer to be upfront about it. It’s running about 12 months late. It’s just those complexities that come into a fairly big construction project.

On the statement of opportunities, obviously, that report out from AEMO this week showed that actually they’ve issued that new report because so much had changed since last August and most of that change is very much for the positive. So much more renewable energy coming on, so many more batteries. So they’re feeling good about some of the short term gaps that they’d previously identified have been fixed, and the whole idea of the report is to show where gaps might emerge in coming years so we can cater our investment to do that, and we’ve seen a big lift in renewable energy investment since we came to office, up 50 per cent last year, which is helping fill some of those gaps.

JENNY MARCHANT: Minister, will Kurri Kurri have green hydrogen in the mix when it starts operating in 2024?

CHRIS BOWEN: We’re going to continue to work on that. Obviously, it’s a complicated thing and this is a new and cutting edge development. Obviously, that is what we are working to do, but that has got nothing to do with the delays. The delays are quite separate to the work we’re doing with Snowy on hydrogen.

JENNY MARCHANT: But are you getting indications that it will be able to start with green hydrogen in the mix?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, it is complicated, but we are continuing to work closely with Snowy on that. Obviously, we want to see our Kurri Kurri plant and Snowy generally and Australia leading the world in the transition to green hydrogen. But, obviously, it’s a big and important complex task, but we’re continuing to work away on it.

JENNY MARCHANT: It was an important component of having the support of the ALP federally and that statement of yours that you’re continuing to work on it may not inspire an awful lot of confidence in the local community.

CHRIS BOWEN: I’m just being honest with you. Look, we still intend to do that and it’s still our intention, but I’m just being straightforward in saying, “Look, it’s complicated” and we’re continuing to work on it. But I’m just also making the point that some people might dishonestly assert that somehow it’s delayed because of the green hydrogen. It’s got nothing to do with the green hydrogen. The delay is just a delay.

DAN COX: Minister, what’s your intention when it comes to the PEP 11 offshore gas proposal. There’s community opposition there. The New South Wales Government and Labor are against it. What’s your position as a federal Labor Minister?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, you’re quite right that I’m a federal Labor Minister. So we need to be careful here, because the reason we’re in this pickle is because Scott Morrison stuffed it up. When he banned PEP 11 he got the process wrong and which meant it was subject to legal challenge. Now, I don’t want to make it subject to legal challenge again, so as a cabinet minister I have to be careful not to create any circumstances where it could be up for legal challenge.

Yesterday, I was with Sharon Claydon and Tim Crakanthorp who made it very, very clear, their views against it. Madeleine King is the Minister, she’ll make the decision and she needs to make that decision in such a way that it is legally non-appealable, that it’s sound, and I know that she’ll do that.

JENNY MARCHANT: Is that decision still being made alongside the New South Wales Government, still with the joint authority there?

CHRIS BOWEN: Look, it’s a Commonwealth decision, is my understanding. Obviously, we talk to the states and we work with the states where we possibly can. But it’s not actually my decision or my portfolio, so Madeleine is the minister who’ll make that decision.

JENNY MARCHANT: How much, though, does the community’s vocal protest on this matter count when it comes to the approval or otherwise?

CHRIS BOWEN: I’m sure that Madeleine will take all that into account, but really I just need to be careful. I don’t want to be the person who gives these guys another chance to appeal, if that’s the decision that she makes

DAN COX: There’s been a lot of talk in the state election campaign about establishing a transitional authority in New South Wales when it comes to energy. Should it be national, though, Minister, seeing everything is uniform and moving to renewables? Does the Federal Government have much power if we’re talking about a state authority?

CHRIS BOWEN: I do think that we need, and we are having, a conversation about how the Commonwealth, how the Federal Government can work with the states to make that transition as smooth as possible, and local government has a role to play and unions and business and industry. So we’ve said publicly we’ve set up a task force within the cabinet to look at this very issue. The Prime Minister chairs that task force. I’m the deputy chair. We will continue to work that through. This is the biggest economic change since the industrial revolution. It needs careful management and, yes, the role that an authority or a body might play in doing that is something we’re currently looking at.

JENNY MARCHANT: Right, so to be clear there’s consideration happening as to whether there should be a federal transitional authority?

CHRIS BOWEN: Yes.

JENNY MARCHANT: We’ve had a request from a local resident. Ian lives in Newcastle, he’s interested in the EV car policy. We’re certainly seeing more of those chargers popping up but those EV cars still feel like a real luxury.

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, I guess a couple of things for Ian, depending on which policy he’s most interested in. I do want to see electric vehicles available for all. We’re not going to force anybody to get them, but at the moment, yes, they are expensive to buy. They’re much cheaper to run once you’ve got one. You never have to darken the door of a petrol station again. They’re much, much cheaper to run. They don’t need servicing. But they can be expensive to buy. Now, that’s by and large an Australian thing. In the United Kingdom, for example, you can get many, many more models of cheaper EVs and they’re coming down all the time.

So we are looking at the policies on that. We’re going to release a national electric vehicle strategy. In the meantime, we’ve cut the taxes on electric vehicles to make them cheaper. We’ve also – we’re also about to start rolling out our Driving the Nation charging policy, which is one charger once every 150 kilometres, which will add to you will those chargers you’re starting to see around. These are all the sorts of things that we are getting on with the job of implementing.

DAN COX: Minister, another listener question on the wind farm zone. If it’s placed off Newcastle where ships anchor in bad weather, how can they anchor without damaging the power cables in the water? Will the port be allowed to continue operating, asks this listener?

CHRIS BOWEN: The port will become very busy servicing the wind turbines. Absolutely the port will operate. Look, just off Newcastle the zone is about 25 kilometres away so plenty of room for people to moor, and, again, these things co-exist around the world. I mean these shipping captains are highly professional operators. They have to navigate around and with offshore wind around the world. I mean, the Port of Rotterdam is one of the busiest ports in the world. There’s offshore wind all around Europe. These things co-exist everywhere.

JENNY MARCHANT: Thanks very much for answering our questions. Enjoy your time in the Hunter today.

CHRIS BOWEN: Always do. Great to join you.