Interview with Jeremy Lee, ABC South West Victoria

JEREMY LEE: Last week we spoke with Dan Tehan, last Friday morning, Member for Wannon, after the Coalition announced that they would scrap the Southern Ocean offshore wind zone if they’re elected at the next federal election, which is due on or before the 17th of May. Dan Tehan cited a couple of things as being crucial to the opposition’s decision here, including a freedom of information request, which apparently uncovered a departmental report talking about the potential impact on whales and sea birds.

Chris Bowen is the Minister for Climate Change and Energy. He’s travelled to Portland a few times recently, of course, to make announcements around the offshore wind zone, and with you again this morning. Chris Bowen, welcome to you.

CHRIS BOWEN: Thanks, Jeremy. Good to be back with you.

JEREMY LEE: Indeed. Now I think it’s almost a year since you declared the Southern Ocean offshore wind zone.

CHRIS BOWEN: That sounds about right.

JEREMY LEE: In that time there’s been a pretty strong campaign locally opposing the decision, a petition that’s attracted over 7000 signatures. Where are you sitting with this currently? Are you still very committed to making this happen?

CHRIS BOWEN: Yeah, and it’s a very important opportunity for the region. And I was disappointed to see Dan Tehan’s comments last week because it’s a very big change in position from him. When he was in government he supported offshore wind and gave a speech in parliament talking about how important it would be for the Portland aluminium smelter. So, you know, if someone’s consistent in their views I respect that, but when they change them for political reasons I am a lot more suspicious.

But, look, in terms of consultation – and let’s just remind our listeners of where we are and how we got here, and this is consultation that has worked as it should – we started with an area of more than 5000 square kilometres and asked people what they think. We got 3285 submissions right across the community from a range of people. I listened, reduced the area down to 1000 square kilometres, and now have issued a preliminary licence to one applicant which covers 265 kilometres – square kilometres. So, you know, we’ve really worked through the issues that have been raised. And that 265 square kilometre zone, even though it's quite small, would produce 1.2 gigawatts of electricity. That’s enough to provide 650,000 Victorian homes and, of course, importantly, work with the Portland aluminium smelter to give it options for renewable energy. Because I’m absolutely committed to the jobs at Portland, and it’s pretty disappointing Dan Tehan isn’t.

JEREMY LEE: All right. We’ll talk a bit more about that preliminary licence in a moment, perhaps, and see what that means. I mean, the press release the Coalition put out last week did – well, they called the consultation process around this deeply flawed. But as far as you’re concerned everybody has had ample opportunity to express their concerns and continue to do so?

CHRIS BOWEN: Look, Jeremy, if I put out a consultation process and then, you know, had submissions and then said, “Look, I’ve read all the submissions but no-one’s made any good points and I haven’t made any changes,” well, then, fair cop, you know, say whatever you like about the consultation process, it would be fair. But where you’ve worked through the issues, made changes, listened about the Bonney Upwelling, for example, you know, we don’t sit here in Canberra and think, well, we know better than everyone, we’re just going to do this. We work through the process, start with an area, put it out, say what do people think. You know, to move from 5000 square kilometres down to 200 square kilometres is a huge change, but it’s how the consultation process is meant to work.

By the way, Jeremy, a consultation process set up by the law that Dan Tehan voted for and spoke for in parliament. I mean, I am implementing a law – I give credit where it’s due – implementing a law, and that law outlined how the consultation process should work, how long it goes out for consultation. All that was passed by the Morrison government with Dan Tehan speaking in favour of it. So you’ll forgive me for pointing out when I smell hypocrisy, I’ll call it out.

JEREMY LEE: Right. Could we ask – can I ask you about this freedom of information request which the Coalition also mentioned, which, once again, according to their release, uncovered a report from the Department of Climate Change, Energy, the Environment and Water’s migratory species section – and to quote from the press release – it reveals the environmental impact this offshore wind farm will have on local wildlife, particularly whales and sea birds. Is there some information in this report which maybe hasn’t been made public or as public has it should be?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, clearly it’s public because we’re talking about it. So, you know, so, again, Dan Tehan’s making things up here. This actually shows how rigorous the process is we work through. You know, we ask the environmental part of the department what do you think. Now, again, that’s part of the reason why we exempted the Bonney Upwelling. So, this area of 265 square kilometres – a lot smaller than the 5000 we went out for consultation – is partly because we’ve taken those concerns into account.

But here’s the next important point: it’s still got to go through environmental approvals. You know, I’ve issued a preliminary licence and we’ll look at the next stage, but still separate to me, it’s got to go through the environmental approvals and Minister Plibersek, if she’s not satisfied, she’ll make an appropriate decision. So this is just – again, what Dan Tehan is pointing to is actually he’s inadvertently shot himself in the foot because he’s actually showing the situation, the process, working as it is intended.

JEREMY LEE: There was nothing in that report, though, that concerned you particularly?

CHRIS BOWEN: No because, again, it shows we’re working the issues through. Of course – of course – any development needs to be worked through in terms of its impact. The biggest impact on whales and bird life is climate change. You know, that is the biggest impact. That’s why we’re doing – one of the reasons we’re doing everything we’re doing. But also we’re not going to cut corners. Minister Plibersek works very carefully through these issues. She’s made a decision, for example, about Port of Hastings, which not everyone was happy with, because she wasn’t satisfied. She’ll make the – have the same process here. The applicant will work – need to work very carefully through those issues, show how they’re managing the impacts, minimising the impacts, and only if it meets those approvals, meets those criteria, will it get the tick.

JEREMY LEE: All right. Eight minutes away from 8 here on breakfast. Chris Bowen is with us, Minister for Climate Change and Energy.

So you mentioned that preliminary licence has been granted to one applicant. So just what does that mean? And when we look at the time line around how these things develop, what stage of the process are we up to?

CHRIS BOWEN: Yeah, so that was a preliminary licence which means that they were then obliged to go and do some further consultation. That process is drawing to an end. So then I would consider my next steps. I’ll have more to say about that. I don’t sort of jump the gun. I look at what they’ve done, make sure I’m satisfied, then make the next announcement. So I’m very careful about these things, Jeremy. I don’t sort of pre-empt. I work through the advice. You know, I get a full brief telling me how they’ve worked with that preliminary approval, what they’ve done, is it satisfactory, and then I announce to the community what the next step is after that.

But, you know, again, this is a very rigorous process. It’s not designed to get offshore wind up and running tomorrow or next week or next month or next year. It will be several years before we get there. That’s because we take it so carefully. And, again, as I said, credit where it’s due – it’s actually the process outlined by a law that Scott Morrison passed and Dan Tehan voted for.

JEREMY LEE: Have there been many applicants, when we talk about this Southern Ocean wind zone? A lot of interest?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, I’ve issued one preliminary licence, and that’s as it should be. Yes, we get varying interest. You know, we got a lot of applicants for Gippsland, for example, which, you know, is a challenge when you get so many applicants. You’ve got to work through which ones are the best ones. Other areas we get fewer. In the Southern Ocean zone, Spinifex, the one that’s been promoted by Alinta Energy, is the only applicant currently – well, the only applicant; the process is, you know, complete in terms of choosing how many applicants – the only applicant who is proceeding.

JEREMY LEE: All right. It’s still some years away, though, as you mentioned there. When do you really need to have these offshore wind zones operational in order to meet your goals for growing renewable energy in Australia?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, it’s not part of our 2030 target. So we’ve got a 2030 target. We are not relying on offshore wind for that 2030 target, because we can’t rush it. So it will be in that period 2030 to 2035 that we would be looking for offshore wind to really be making a serious contribution. The Victorian government has got good policies in place to encourage offshore wind. But, really, we’re looking around that 2030 period, that 2030 time line, for getting serious energy out of offshore wind in Australia.

JEREMY LEE: All right. And just remind us what role it will ultimately play in that overall mix, I guess. Are we talking about a facility that’s just going to be powering, for example, presuming the smelter remains in Portland and continues functioning, is it very much about that? Or is it about, you know, a bigger contribution to the energy grid?

CHRIS BOWEN: It’s both. It’s both. And, again, I was disappointed to see Dan Tehan say it’s got nothing to do with Portland smelter. Either he’s fibbing or he’s not well informed because the smelter and the proposal have an MOU to work together for offshore wind to provide energy for the smelter.

One of the reasons we choose these zones is links to smelters, so Hunter and Southern Ocean, where we have, you know, two big smelters. It’s one of the reasons why we choose these links. But, as I said, there’s enough offshore wind energy just out of this relatively small proposal, which is 1.2 gigawatts, which is enough for 650,000 Victorian homes, 10 per cent of Victoria’s energy needs. So it could power and make a big contribution of powering the smelter and have energy left over at other times to help the rest of the Victorian economy as well.

JEREMY LEE: What sort of cost has been involved in getting to this stage of having those declared offshore wind zones as well? I mean, if the project is scrapped, how many money and time will have been wasted?

CHRIS BOWEN: Look, I mean, there’s money from the government to run the process. That’s not, you know, huge. But there’s money from the proponents who’ve put – you know, they have to put millions of dollars into these proposals to make sure that they meet the government’s satisfactory – you know, satisfy the government’s needs. So I don’t think that’s the main issue. The main issue would be, frankly, the economic lost opportunity for the region of all the clean power, reliable power.

The thing about offshore wind is it is always windy. Unlike onshore wind which, you know, our listeners would know because you see the wind farms around, when they’re operating they’re operating well, but it’s not always windy onshore. It’s windy offshore a lot more consistently, including during the night when – obviously when we don’t have a contribution from solar, we get a lot of – we can have a lot of contribution from offshore wind.

That would be the very big missed opportunity if Dan Tehan and the Liberals got their way. And, of course, they want us to wait around for 20 years for nuclear to come on board for Australia and to lose all these opportunities in the meantime. Now, nuclear is the most expensive form of energy. It’s very slow to build. In the meantime we can be getting on with it.

JEREMY LEE: All right. Perhaps related to that, there is a full-page ad in today’s Age, and presumably in other newspapers as well, it’s an open letter to federal and state parliamentary members calling on governments to focus on what’s being termed real zero emissions targets instead of net zero policies. And it mentions strong incentives for renewable energy adoption. What’s your response to this? It seems to be suggesting that the government is, you know, taking your foot off the pedal a bit here.

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, look, when you’re Climate Change Minister you get plenty of free advice. Some people who say you’re not going fast enough, other people who say this is all too fast. Look, I respect the views of the people putting it forward. We’re doing a lot. We’re getting to 82 percent renewable by 2030. That’s a big lift from 35 percent when we came to office. We’re going to meet our 43 percent emissions reduction target. We have strong requirements on industry to reduce their emissions under our safeguard reforms. We’re doing all that. You do need to be flexible about how you get it done. But there’ll be people who say they want less flexibility. I respect their views, but we’re just going to keep going with the policy that we’ve outlined and got a mandate for because that’s what’s so important for setting Australia up for its economic future.

JEREMY LEE: The policy that the Coalition have put out as well, how does this affect, I guess, people’s thoughts around all of this. Does it – when we have this uncertainty around it, I mean, are you seeing people now, sort of, perhaps wavering a little bit in their commitment to this?

CHRIS BOWEN: It’s certainly causing concern in the renewable energy industry because you’ve got the opposition saying – you know, on the one hand they say, “Oh, we don’t mind renewable energy,” but then all their policies are anti-renewable energy. And they bag it out, they call it unreliable. They don’t really believe in renewable energy at all, the opposition. Really, it’s very disappointing. And they would create sovereign risk. 

Would do we mean by sovereign risk? It’s when a government comes in and rips up contracts and people who sign contracts in good faith, you know, lose their certainty. And oppositions should avoid sovereign risk. You know, I’ve been in positions where I’ve said, “Well, look, I don’t like particularly what the previous government did, but they made a commitment, they signed a commitment, a contract, so we have to honour it.” 

It’s pretty disappointing to see the so-called party of free enterprise wanting to rip up entered-into arrangements, and also, by the way, the so-called party of free enterprise saying they want to spend $600 billion of taxpayers’ money on nuclear. Now, the thing about renewables is most of the money comes from the private sector. This Spinifex is all from the private sector but nuclear would all be from taxpayers.

JEREMY LEE: All right. Minister Bowen, we might have to leave it there I’m afraid.