Interview with Jeremy Lee, ABC South Western Victoria

JEREMY LEE: Federal Minister for Climate Change and Energy Chris Bowen is with us again this morning. Minister, welcome to you once again.

CHRIS BOWEN: Pleasure, Jeremy, good morning.

JEREMY LEE: So already quite a lot of discussion happening around this. When you went through this process in Gippsland what were the main issues raised by people there in relation to this proposal?

CHRIS BOWEN: Pretty similar to what we just heard, and that's good to hear that discussion because this is a very genuine consultation process we're in the middle of at the moment.

People have very legitimate issues, questions, concerns which we take into account in my final decision about whether and where to declare the zone. So, you know, environmental concerns, fishing concerns, tourism concerns are all very legitimate.

Of course, on the other side, these wind farms offshore create a lot of energy and a lot of jobs. So we're looking at the moment at this Southern Ocean proposed wind zone, that's 5,100 square kilometres. That would be 14 gigawatts, that's enough to power millions of homes and would be 3,000 jobs during construction and then a further 3,000 jobs when they're operating, and would also be very important for the future of the Portland Smelter which has plans to convert to renewable energy but needs offshore wind, under their plans it's a very important part.

So these are the matters that we need to consult on. Offshore wind is important. I heard one of the gentlemen there saying, "Well we're a big country, we've got plenty of room onshore" and to a degree of course that's true, but we're also the world's largest island and so we have plenty of room offshore as well. So really both need to be in the mix, but it's important we do it but it's also important we get it right and we talk to communities as we do so and that's what we're in the middle of doing at the moment.

JEREMY LEE: I think when we spoke last time as well, we did talk a little bit about perhaps some of the differences between offshore wind and on shore wind potential I suppose. In that regard there is quite a difference, is there, in terms of - 

CHRIS BOWEN: Yes, there is.

JEREMY LEE: - I guess what one offers as opposed to the other?

CHRIS BOWEN: Yeah, they are quite different in two ways. One, it tends to be windier off the coast, so the wind is more powerful for energy. So one turn of one offshore wind turbine provides as much power as the solar panels on your roof all day, and they turn about 15 times a minute. That gives you an idea of just how powerful the wind is off our shore. That makes sense, you know, anybody who's been a fisherman or recreational boaters know how windy it can get.

But also important, Jeremy, it tends to be windy off our coast at different times to when it's windy on shore. It tends to be windier at night and the early evening. As solar is going down offshore winds tends to kick in and become a bigger source of generation. So it's the usual thing to help us stabilise the grid.

Of course, one of the people there said we can't store renewable energy enough. Well, with respect, that's not quite right. We've got a job to do but, you know, batteries, pumped hydro, ultimately green hydrogen, are all ways that we will store renewable energy. It is true that the wind doesn't always blow, and the sun doesn't always shine. But look, rain doesn't always fall either and we drink water every day, we store it, and we have similar plans for renewable energy.

But of course this is all part of the very important transformation that we're undertaking as part of this big economic transformation and our best efforts to make sure that we hold the world as close as possible to 1.5 degrees of warming, because everybody knows just what a huge impact that would have on our country and your beautiful part of the world.

JEREMY LEE: Yes. Can we talk directly about one of the concerns that were raised there, and I've heard this I guess in other discussions as well, which is this question around how a development like this could affect access to that part of the ocean. Maybe this is something that we don't know yet, I don't know, maybe it depends on the companies who build these things as to how this works, but do you have any sense at this stage as to how it would affect access to people like fishermen and so on? Would people be able to, you know, sail effectively right underneath a wind turbine, for example, or would you expect that a wind farm development would be somehow cordoned off and would not be accessible in any way?

CHRIS BOWEN: Yeah, these are one of the most important things that I consider, and I think firstly, Jeremy, just an important point is that, before I just get to that detail, just how many steps there are in this process. So at the moment we're consulting about whether I declare this offshore wind zone.

Which is important. If I do then declare it and then there's boundaries that I have to consider as well, maybe we'll get to that in a minute. Then we call for expressions of interest from people who will actually operate wind farms offshore. They've got to go through a process. One of the things that they'll have to show us is how they can co-exist with pre-existing industries, whether it be lobster fishing or other commercial fishing, and different companies have different approaches and different plans.

Some of the evidence from overseas shows that actually a lot of fish and lobsters actually quite like wind turbines as a breeding ground, you know, that they are attracted to the new structure and, you know, find it very interesting and so actually sea life can become more active.

But of course access is an important issue so that's really something that's considered in both of those steps. And of course each wind farm proposal has to also go through separate environmental approvals and show that they've considered and dealt with the environmental impact.

So this is no sort of rush to just get wind turbines up tomorrow. There's a very important three-stage process. But of course when I looked at Gippsland and when I looked at the Hunter, which are the two zones I've already declared.

Fishing is one of the key impacts so in both of those processes, Gippsland for example we started at around 30,000 square kilometres, much bigger than the one we're talking about here, but in the end after considering all the concerns I changed the area to about 15,000 square kilometres. And similarly in the Hunter, again a smaller area, one similar to the one that we're talking about here, that area was reduced by about a third.

It's a very genuine consultation where I look at all the issues, hear all the concerns. Offshore wind is very important. It'll be very important to the future of Portland in particular. It's very important to our future energy needs.

For example, one of the wind farms that's been proposed in Gippsland, Star of the South, it's called, will generate enough energy to provide 20 per cent of Victoria's energy needs. So, you know, these are very important for our energy mix but it's also very important we get it right.

JEREMY LEE: Yeah. But in terms of that access though, that's something that we can't sort of guarantee, or you can't guarantee at this stage?

CHRIS BOWEN: Yeah, well what I'm saying is it's one of the key considerations I take into account. Because the last thing I want to do is, you know, stop commercial fishing. One of the things I look at is how would the particular zone interact with commercial fishing, and then when we come to the expressions of interest, you know, many of the wind farm proponents say, "Well, we're perfectly fine with commercial fishing around or rec fishing", you know. So I need to see evidence about how it could co-exist.

These are big areas with a big ocean, plenty of room to share. But I need to see how they would co-exist. We need jobs of the future through renewable energy, but we also need existing jobs that exist in fishing and other associated industries.

JEREMY LEE: Does this effectively result in privatised areas of the ocean to some degree?

CHRIS BOWEN:  Well I mean certainly the companies that operate these are private companies and they have, you know, they have a business to run, but certainly they also have to comply with conditions we put on at various stages of the process, most particularly the expressions of interest. They have to show how they'll care for the area. They have to show how they'll co-exist with the area.

So it's really just as have people have commercial fishing rights, you know, currently, they will have wind farm operating rights I guess you could say, but I'm very keen to ensure that those are managed in a way that the economic benefit for the area is maximised.

As I said this is jobs rich as well, Jeremy. Because these wind turbines turn so fast they need a lot of maintenance which means – so that's jobs for the local area. And then of course because they're offshore by definition you need ships to take them out, the workers out, so that's jobs for the ports and more ships in the area and a lot more economic activity. But that's got to co-exist and complement the existing economy and people with existing jobs.

JEREMY LEE: All right. How inevitable is all this as well, Chris Bowen? Having gone through this process, for example, is it possible that you might go through this consultation process and then at the end of it say, "Well actually, no, we were not satisfied that this can happen without compromising things like access and those commercial concerns and whatever else exists and therefore we're not going to proceed with this"?

CHRIS BOWEN:  I don't want to pre empt my decision of course.

JEREMY LEE: No.

CHRIS BOWEN: Because it's a very genuine consultation. But as I said, look, of the two examples so far, Gippsland and Hunter, when I read through the submissions, you know, if people say “Look, I don't believe in renewable energy, I don't believe in climate change", well, you know, I don't agree with that and I don't really take that into account to be very honest with you. But when people say, "Look, okay, here's my concerns. I'm concerned about fishing. I'm concerned about a particular environmental impact". 

In the Hunter, for example, we had an area I proposed. Then I had some feedback about a bird called the Gould's petrel and its migration patterns and its particular life on a particular island. I said, "M'mm, fair enough. Okay, we're going to reduce the area around there to make sure that we look after the Gould's petrel". So these are the issues that we do take into account.

As I said, there's then more bites of the cherry when the companies actually put in their expressions of interest, they've got to deal with all those concerns, and then they've got to go through environmental approvals as well. So there's like three bites of the cherry to make sure we get this process right.

JEREMY LEE: Right, and the consultation of course an important part of that. We'll have to leave it there, Chris Bowen, but thank you very much for your time and I'm sure we'll talk to you again soon.

CHRIS BOWEN: Pleasure. And consultation's open until 31 August so please get down to one of the sessions and by all means get a submission in and make your submission, you know, detailed as to what your concerns are so I can take them into account.

JEREMY LEE: Fantastic. Thanks again for your time.

CHRIS BOWEN:  Good on you. Cheers Jeremy.