Interview with Jess McGuire, 1223 ABC Newcastle

JESS McGUIRE: How do you feel about the proposed wind farm off our coast? It's an issue that can divide opinions. Some feel the push toward renewable energy is worthwhile, some feel there would be an unacceptable cost to our marine environment and those who use it. The Federal Opposition has already pledged to scrap the wind farm if elected. But today the Energy Minister Chris Bowen has announced that Novocastrian Wind Pty Ltd has been offered a feasibility licence, the next step in the process. So what does it all mean? Mr Bowen is here now. Good afternoon, Minister.

CHRIS BOWEN: My pleasure, thanks for having me on.

JESS McGUIRE: What does this mean for the project?

CHRIS BOWEN: It's the next step. Last year I issued a preliminary licence to the same proponent, and they have done the work required of them over the last few months, and it's the next step now for them to proceed to a full licence. There's still a long way ago. Basically, the full licence enables them to undertake the further feasibility work that's necessary to engage in further community consultation. One of the conditions I've put on the licence is that they must work with commercial and recreational fishers on the issues that have been identified, and all issues are taken into account. As you know, the zone is much bigger than the proponent, so this proponent is a much smaller part of the zone but that's how the situation works, the system works. You declare a zone and then inevitably it's not all full. This proponent is at the Newcastle end of the zone. It's good for jobs, 3,000 construction jobs, hundreds of ongoing jobs, and good for renewable energy to power Newcastle's industrial future for many generations to come.

JESS McGUIRE: Is the environmental study part of this feasibility licence?

CHRIS BOWEN: Oh very much so, they have to undertake further studies and also separately, quite separate to me, and as a separate process they'll have to receive EPBC nvironmental approvals, which I have no role in. So they'll need to meet all those very strict criteria.

JESS McGUIRE: What is EPBC?

CHRIS BOWEN: That's the Environmental Protection Biodiversity Act. That's basically the Federal environmental approvals which Minister Plibersek and her agency runs, and that's all at arm's length from me; I have no involvement. And that's as it should be. It's to ensure an independent process to ensure it meets all environmental standards.

JESS McGUIRE: Will there be work on the water or on the sea bed as part of this next stage?

CHRIS BOWEN: They'll be testing the sea bed as part of their feasibility studies, you know, to work out where, you know, where the issues are that need to be addressed. But all that work will occur over the next few years, this isn't rushed. It will be several years before we see any energy coming out of the offshore wind. That's appropriate as we work through all the issues.

JESS McGUIRE: These early environmental investigations that could involve looking at the sea bed, for instance, are they also subject to environmental approvals?

CHRIS BOWEN: Yeah, there's all sorts of checks that they have to go through every time that they do that through the various regulators as well as the environmental approvals, yes.

JESS McGUIRE: What are the environmental targets that you particularly want to see from this process to make sure that should it go ahead it's not damaging marine life or those who use the water?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well I mean I think obviously there's a few issues that we have worked on. So, for example, the zone was changed in relation to any particular impacts on the Gould’s Petrel or anything like that. But then when it comes to a specific proposal, there are restrictions that can be put on in relation to bird life. Now, many, many, many, many more birds are killed by windows and cars and cats than wind turbines, onshore or offshore, but that doesn't mean that we don't take those concerns into account. A lot of people think about marine life and wildlife in particular. Now I think this is an important point. Offshore wind has existed around the world since 1992. That's the first offshore wind zone that was put in place in Europe, but it's brand new for us. So whales and other marine life co-exist very well with offshore wind in other countries, and indeed fishing does. It's a myth that somehow fishing can't co-exist with offshore wind. It can. You have to manage and there are small restrictions put in place. But nevertheless they can co exist. And indeed often the marine life improves because, as you can imagine, it's like sinking a warship or an old ship, creating a shipwreck, that marine life comes in to investigate. It's similar with the cables and the turbines. So these are all legitimate issues to be worked through. As I said, I have put a requirement on the proponent that they must work with the local fishing community to ensure that this co-existence and cohabitation can occur.

JESS McGUIRE: If for instance then the commercial fishing industry or even the recreational fishers came back and said, "We feel this is unacceptable, any exclusion zones, for instance, will have a negative impact on what we need to do", is that enough to either change the plans or have this not go ahead?

CHRIS BOWEN: No, but I want the proponent working with the fishing industry. We have taken that approach all the way along. Exclusion zones tend to be very small around each turbine, 50 metres on either side of the turbine. The turbines tend to be 2 kilometres apart from each other. So that means there's, you know, 1,900 metres where fisher people can do whatever they like in between. These are, you know, this is a common misunderstanding that somehow if there's a wind zone the whole thing's an exclusion zone. That is just not how it works overseas and nor how it would work here.

JESS McGUIRE: If you are returned to government will this go ahead in one form or another, or are there issues that could come up in this process that will make you consider whether it should just not go ahead?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well I'm very keen to get the jobs created and the renewable energy going, but having said that we've shown so far that we will take into account community feedback. We made the zone smaller, we put restrictions on and requirements on. We'll continue that approach. I want it to work for everyone. Where there's genuine concerns we'll work those through. Where there's misinformation and disinformation from people who don't believe in climate change, well I won't take that into account. But where there are genuine issues where people have raised concerns, I've met with the fishers on multiple occasions, I've met with pro, you know, proponents, groups who support offshore wind, I've met with groups against it. I like to think I take all concerns into account and come up with a balanced approach which balances the need for more renewable energy and more jobs with legitimate concerns to be worked through.

JESS McGUIRE: The Energy Minister Chris Bowen is with me on 1233 ABC Newcastle. Locals have been concerned about a lack of consultation on this. Aside from the ballot box, how can they pass on their views, positive or negative, through this process?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well there'll be ongoing consultation the proponent needs to do as part of the feasibility licence. They'll be holding town hall meetings and what have you, putting out more information. I understand at the beginning of the process a lot of people wanted more information, and that's difficult because the way the law's written, and that was the previous Liberal Government that wrote this law, is that you consult on the broad zone first. Now a lot of people have a lot of inquiries, for example, about well where will the cables go, what sort of turbines will go in? You can't answer those questions early because you're just deciding whether to do a zone. We're getting closer to the stage where those questions will be up for consultation, you know, a proponent can now look at and talk about how they'll connect to the mainland, where that will happen, get people's feedback. There are all sorts of issues where the community will get many, many more bites of the cherry to have a say.

JESS McGUIRE: How much will the communities' views factor into the final decision?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, again, I've always taken into account community views. Now you can't please everyone. Like, you know, I got used to that fact in politics and particularly in climate change many years ago. You know, there are people who are strong in favour of this, there are people who are against. There are people who on balance favour it but have, you know, some concerns. You know, I can't please all those people. What I can do is say most people accept, 90 per cent of people accept that climate change is real, and that renewable energy is part of the answer. That's easy to say, harder to do. This is a very important part of doing it, but I do accept it's very new for Australia. I also know that the people of Newcastle in particular have a long heritage of making energy and exporting energy and being involved in energy and they know that, you know, none of these things are automatic or easy, and they've been very strongly engaged in the process.

JESS McGUIRE: Minister, this election could be a tight contest, and we know that the Opposition has said it wouldn't support a wind farm going ahead off the Hunter. Paterson in particular could be a very tight result. So will this issue decide the way things go in that seat and others?

CHRIS BOWEN: I think people vote on a range of issues, you know. People vote on Medicare, people vote on education, people vote on our tax cuts for all, people vote on Mr Dutton's plan to give a tax break to bosses, people will vote on nuclear energy. I mean yes, some people will think about their various positions in offshore wind. As I said, many people in favour, some people against. That's the process. But I don't think this election in any electorate will be a single event.

JESS McGUIRE: This is a seven-year feasibility licence being offered as you've announced today. Do you expect it will take seven years to know what happens beyond this?

CHRIS BOWEN: Oh, look, time will tell. I mean, I know the proponent's very keen to get cracking and they will do their work as quickly as possible. Seven years is the outer limit. You know, I do think it's in everyone's best interest once all the issues have been worked through to be getting on with creating renewable energy and jobs, but we don't do it a day before it's ready or a day after.

JESS McGUIRE: Chris Bowen, thank you.

CHRIS BOWEN: Nice to talk.

JESS McGUIRE: Chris Bowen is the Energy Minister. You're on 1233 ABC Newcastle. Thanks for your texts. Kim says, "I'd rather that offshore wind farm" than what Kim describes as "a dumb, backward nuclear power station".  Kim says, "I understand the wind farm will be so far offshore we won't be able to see it". Steve says, "I support the wind turbines. A few noisy NIMBYs get all the attention".  I know it's an issue of great interest around here. I hope that we'll have more chance   we would like to be able to speak to the person, the proponents, I guess you'd say, the people now working on this feasibility plan, and certainly we'll be wanting to bring you the details of where your consultation points are, town halls as described by the Energy Minister.