Interview with Kieran Gilbert, Sky News

KIERAN GILBERT: Chris Bowen, thanks for your time.

CHRIS BOWEN: G’day.

KIERAN GILBERT: A timely interview for us today as AEMO have released this Statement of Opportunities. It's basically a ten-year roadmap. Is there anything in here that worries you or are you reassured by the findings in this report?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, this is the process working, Kieran. The Electricity Statement of Opportunities is designed to show governments and the private sector where there might be some gaps and where the investment should be directed, and Electricity Statement of Opportunities have forecast reliability gaps for years. You know, if the 2018 ESOO was read, we'd be in the middle of a reliability shortfall around about now. But investments come forward to make sure that that doesn't happen. And that's what will happen in relation to this as well.

And remember, Kieran, lots of people said they're was going to be blackouts this last summer. Peter Dutton and Ted O'Brien wandered around saying there are going to be lights going out and causing all sorts of fear in the community. There were no blackouts caused by a lack of electricity. We had issues with cyclones and transmission towers falling over. That can happen to anyone, but we had plenty of energy to get us through last summer. And the investments will come forward, particularly underpinned by the Albanese Government's Capacity Investment Scheme, which will mean, as the ESOO itself says, when you look at the ESOO, it says, “…with government policy implemented, the reliability gaps are dealt with…”. And I expect government policy will be implemented.

KIERAN GILBERT: Yeah, and part of that government policy is the gas strategy that was announced recently. This report also repeats that message that gas is going to remain a – an important peaking capacity for the foreseeable future.

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, that's right. And the importance of gas is, apart from its importance for industry, like cement making and steel making, and apart from the 5 million homes in Australia that use gas for heating and cooking, for the electricity system, as I've often said over a long period of time, the benefit of gas is that it's flexible. You can turn it on and off. That means it's very good for peaking and firming. Unlike coal, which you can't switch on and off, unlike nuclear, which you can't switch on and off, gas, you can switch on and off at two minutes' notice. And so, we have said repeatedly that gas is an important underpinning. Now, there are extremes on both sides of this debate. The former government's gas-led recovery was a fraud. The Greens say no new gas, that's equally unhelpful. We do have the Bass Strait depleting. We're getting less and less gas out of the Bass Strait. We've got to make sure we have enough gas for the gas-fired power stations to peak and firm the renewables, to underpin that renewable energy, and that's been reflected in government policy for a long time now.

KIERAN GILBERT: And with AEMO suggesting with large consumers or manufacturers or other companies that use a lot of energy, if they can contract them to wind back that usage in the event of shortages. Is this basically just an insurance policy against the worst happening?

CHRIS BOWEN: Yeah, and it's very common and very standard. It has been for years. You know, in peak periods, there's a thing called the RERT. AEMO has a list of companies that volunteer to reduce power usage that they, and they trade that power usage. It's a very, very common occurrence under the last government. It's happened a little bit under this government from time to time. It is part of the demand management for peak periods, and by putting the report out today, AEMO has enabled some planning of that. But it's very prudent, very standard procedure.

KIERAN GILBERT: I want to play you a little of what Chris Minns said. This was on the Eraring power station. I'll play a little of it to you and get your thoughts on the future of Eraring and what the NSW Government's up to on this. Have a look.

[Excerpt]

CHRIS MINNS: Our priority right now is keeping the lights on and keeping power prices as low as possible. We'll keep everything on the table to ensure that consumers aren't having to face massive increases in power prices. I know that there's some consternation about Eraring, particularly from renewable energy advocates. I just make the point that nothing will extinguish community and popular support for this energy transition than a massive power - power price spike.

[End of excerpt]

KIERAN GILBERT: Chris Bowen. There's Chris Minns, and it sounds to me like they're increasingly likely to do a deal with Origin and keep Eraring open for longer. Would that take a bit of the pressure off?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, no secrets there, Kieran. It’s been well established that the NSW Government was in discussions with Origin about the closure date of Eraring. That's as it should be. Governments, and in this case state governments, manage the exit of coal fired power stations. Sometimes they're brought forward, sometimes they're delayed. When you're managing a big transition, that's quite, quite appropriate. So, the Minns government is acting appropriately there. My position is the same as Penny Sharpe's. I don't want to see the Eraring power station open for a day longer than it needs to be. I don't want to see it shut a day earlier than it should, to ensure a managed transition towards 82 per cent renewables. I'm very confident the Minns government will pull that off and they'll get the right balance.

KIERAN GILBERT: It's a big part of the energy grid in NSW, 20 to 25 per cent. Last year, I think it was from memory, 22 per cent. It's a big part. A big chunk of the NSW energy grid. Given this report out of AEMO hasn't factored in an extension of Eraring, that would take a bit of pressure off more broadly, wouldn't it?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, it's no secret, as I said, that looking at that period around 2025, is it exactly the right time for Eraring to close, is something the NSW Government has considered and been talking to us. Not that we are, not that we are involved in the negotiations, but also to Origin Energy. That's quite appropriate. I make this point about the Statement of Opportunities. There were lots of assumptions made, Kieran. That's quite prudent. For example, with the 4.2 gigawatts of new energy coming on, they've assumed six-month delays. Now, many of those projects are not delayed and will not be delayed, but AEMO has quite appropriately factored in what would happen if there's delay in the project in South Australia or the Kurri Kurri Project in NSW. Now, the Kurri Kurri Project in NSW is on time, but it's not unreasonable for AEMO to say, well, let's just think about what happens if it's six months late and what we need to do to manage that. It's not running six months late, it is running on time. But I have no problem with AEMO just putting in an assumption that it's running six months late, because sometimes, you know, when you're on the last part, things can go wrong at the last minute. With a big project like that, there are sometimes delays and it's appropriate to factor some in.

KIERAN GILBERT: Indeed it is, and it's a big news day. Just before you go, I want to ask you for your thoughts on this. Quite a big decision by the International Criminal Court, issuing indictments, arrest warrants for three of the Hamas terrorists and the Israeli Prime Minister and Defence Minister. The US President said it was outrageous, there's no moral equivalence. What's your read on it?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, I respect the International Criminal Court and I respect the work they do, and international law must be respected. International law, of course, was not respected by Hamas. Israel must respect international law. So, I heard, when I was waiting for this interview, Peter Dutton's comments, which I thought were in and of themselves highly irresponsible by Peter Dutton to drag this through a domestic political debate. We respect the work of the International Criminal Court. International law must always be observed, and nobody gets a free pass from that.

KIERAN GILBERT: Do you think it's inappropriate, though, to suggest a moral equivalence between, say, the terrorist group Hamas and the Israeli leadership?

CHRIS BOWEN: I think it's appropriate to respect the work of the International Criminal Court, which is what the Prime Minister has said, and I'm pretty surprised that Peter Dutton does not. Or perhaps I'm not surprised, but he clearly doesn't.

KIERAN GILBERT: Minister Chris Bowen, thanks for your time. I appreciate it.

CHRIS BOWEN: Always good to chat, KG. Good on you.