Interview with Leon Compton, ABC Tasmania Mornings

LEON COMPTON: First up, though, big news in politics – the Federal Government today will announce final lines that will define an offshore wind zone for Tasmania. There’d been one mooted. There’s been lots of community input. Well, today the lines get drawn.

Now, how to help you understand these lines, we’re going to go to Wynyard, so think of the beautiful northwest. You want to draw a line up starting about 30 kilometres off the Tasmanian coast there and then stretch all the way across to Bridport and, in fact, east of Bridport and take your line there starting 30 kilometres out from the Tasmanian coast. There’d be a shipping channel running through the middle. Potentially these waters could host giant wind turbines a decade or more into the future, producing electricity in massive quantities – potentially.

Chris Bowen is the Minister for Climate and Energy. Chris Bowen, good morning to you. Chris Bowen, there are other offshore wind zones identified around the Tasmanian coast. How likely are global investors to choose to build in Bass Strait?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, of course, under our laws to get wind constructed offshore you have to be in a Federally designated zone, so you occasionally get proposals in other areas, but they won’t happen unless they’re in a Federally designated zone. And what I am doing today is designating the Bass Strait as Tasmania’s offshore wind zone. As you said, this is – there’s been a lot of consultation about this. I was actually down in January starting the consultation. I’m declaring the zone today, and we’ve made changes.

But, look, offshore wind is very important for our energy future. It is pretty much always windy off our coast, particularly here. And it’s a constant source of energy and it’s also very jobs rich. Because the turbines move so fast, they need a lot of maintenance, and that creates a lot of work for maintenance workers and, of course, you need ships to take the workers out there. So inevitably there’s a lot of multiplier effects, a lot of jobs created. So it’s good for energy, good for jobs and good for the future.

LEON COMPTON: Why did you decide, as you say, through your consultation to move the wind zone boundary a minimum of 30 kilometres off the Tasmanian coast? Why did you do that?

CHRIS BOWEN: So this is the process we go through – we put out a draft zone and then we see what people think. And you get a range of concerns raised, sometimes, you know, legitimate concerns, sometimes people who’ve misunderstood or there’s misinformation. But I take into account all the legitimate concerns. And one of the concerns we get is amenity, you know, what it looks like. At 30 kms, you basically can’t see them the vast majority of the time. You know, you’d have to really be squinting to see it 30 kms off. And we take into account those concerns, some fishing issues, shipping lane, as you indicated.

So the zone that I’m declaring today is about 30 per cent smaller than the one that started consultation, but still 7,100 square kilometres, so that’s quite big and there’s plenty of room for proponents to come in and make their bids.

LEON COMPTON: Yeah, you talk – so you talk about the visual amenity, and I understand what you’re saying there. We’ve spoken to one wind farm developer, so actually experienced in this. He says the problem with trying to please everybody is that 30 kilometres offshore means it’s much less likely that investors will be available to come and bid to build wind farms that can generate electricity affordably back into the market. So the water is deeper and there are the logistics issues and that will make it harder to have wind farms actually built 30 kms or more offshore.

CHRIS BOWEN: I can assure you, Leon, when you’re the Minister for Climate Change and Energy you don’t please everyone and you don’t try to. But what you do do is try and strike the right balance. There’ll be – there’s been lots of commercial private sector industry in this zone. I envisage that will continue. No doubt some proponents will say, “I would have liked it bigger.” I understand that. It’s still quite big – 7,100 square kilometres. That’s one of our bigger zones. That leaves a lot of room.

Yes, it gets deeper if you go further out, but, you know, that’s pretty similar to our zones elsewhere in the country and, indeed, around the world. And there’ll be a range of technologies that people deploy.

What happens now, Leon – this has got a long way to go and it’s important people realise, this is important but we take it carefully. I’ve declared the zone today. That means there’s now three months until the 12th of March for private sector bidders to come in and say, “We want this bit of the zone or that bit of the zone. We want to prepare.” Then I take a considerable amount of time with the regulator to go through those bids and work out the best ones. Then I award a feasibility licence, then they have – then they’re able to do further work. And if that all stacks up, they apply for a commercial licence, and then separately they have to get their environmental approvals under the EPBC Act.

So this won’t be happening in, you know, this side of 2030. This will be a process which is important for the future but it’s not one that’s sort of around the corner or part of our 2030 plans. This is setting us up for the decades to come.

LEON COMPTON: I felt like you might have talked about that on a mainland time frame. This is Tasmania, Minister. So you didn’t mention the 10 years of environmental debate and discussion about whether or not it can actually happen. Have you pre-checked these areas? Do you know that whomever, Tanya Plibersek or whoever occupies her office will approve wind farms into the future, that there won’t be migratory whale routes or migratory bird routes that will rule out the areas that you’ve selected here?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, the correct answer to that, Leon, to be honest, yes and no. So I do consult with Minister Plibersek and her department. And, you know, if there’s any particular red lines they say, “Well, look, don’t even bother looking at this area because it’s very important for migration of particular species –

LEON COMPTON: So are you saying there are no red lines in the areas that you’ve chosen?

CHRIS BOWEN: Correct. What I’m saying is that we have consulted with her bureaucrats and with her. That doesn’t mean, though, to be clear, that it’s an automatic approval. The applicants still need to go through the process and do all their studies and put in their case and there are still approvals to go. So it’s a balanced approach. I don’t declare a zone if the Minister for the Environment says, “Look, under no circumstances would I declare or approve a wind farm there.” I don’t do that, but that also doesn’t mean automatic approval.

LEON COMPTON: So, Anna in Moraine, “Can you please ask the Minister about potential disruption to recreational fishers,” says Anna in Moraine this morning.

CHRIS BOWEN: Sure.

LEON COMPTON: Your response to that question?

CHRIS BOWEN: That’s something that many people ask about. It’s a very legitimate issue. But offshore wind can and does co-exist with rec-fishing and, indeed, commercial fishing around the world. A lot of people look at a new map and freak out and say, “Oh, no, I won’t be able to fish in there anymore.” That’s not true.

And the way it works around the world is these turbines are usually about 2 kilometres apart from each other. So you can’t go right up to the turbine and fish, you know, within 50 metres, but you can fish in between the turbines. So you’ve got 2 kilometres in between the turbines. So, rec-fishing and commercial fishing can co-exist quite well. And in fact, Leon, a lot of studies show fishing improves because it's like an artificial reef. It's like if you sink a, you know, shipwreck out there, fish come into explore and to swim around it. Same happens with wind turbines. So, fishing quality can actually improve –

LEON COMPTON: Okay.

CHRIS BOWEN: It takes management. You know, we require the proponents to develop a management plan about how they’re going to interact with commercial fishing and rec-fishing. That’s part of the criteria they have to go through. And there’ll be further, you know, consultations with both communities – the rec and commercial fishing communities. But it can and does co-exist.

LEON COMPTON: Burt asked via text this morning – and my guest this morning is Chris Bowen, Minister for Climate Change and Energy, the Federal Government today announcing a renewable energy zone, a wind zone, off the Tasmanian coast in Bass Strait, and you can have a look at it up online, but imagine a line across from 30 ks out to see from Wynyard across to Bridport and you’d make it some interesting shapes with a shipping channel in the middle and you’re getting the idea.

Burt asked via text this morning, “Minister, what guarantees are there that threatened marine species, including birds, won’t be harmed by these wind farms?”

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, I guess that goes back to the conversation we had before – we’ve done a lot of studies and checks and then any proposal needs to go through and do all their environmental studies, submit them to the Department of Environment for approval, the Minister for approval. So all that, whether it is bird life or marine life, all that goes through.

Now, I will say this though: around the world – again, there’s some misconceptions – all this is important and we do the work, but there’s some misconceptions that somehow wind turbines are, you know, the biggest threat to bird life. In fact, the vast majority of birds that die die from other things, not wind turbines. And there’s technology you can employ which helps manage bird life and ensures that it’s done sensitively. So all that gets worked through in the process.

LEON COMPTON: Okay. On Mornings around Tasmania, a couple of other things before we leave you, Minister, because your portfolio is an enormous issue in the Tasmanian context. Are you frustrated by the delays in approving or rejecting the Robbins Island wind farm?

CHRIS BOWEN: Look, Leon, I think it’s important that the proper process is followed. Now, I don’t lobby Tanya Plibersek to approve or reject any renewable energy applications. That’s not – that wouldn’t be appropriate. We’re both Cabinet Ministers, but she has important responsibilities under the act where she has to be satisfied. I obviously am rolling out renewable energy across the country and, you know, we’re on track to meet our 82 per cent targets, but it’s also got to meet environmental concerns. It would be improper for me as one minister who doesn’t have the responsibility for the environmental approvals to second guess the minister who does. So she’s working through that. She has, you know, indicated she needs more information. I’m not going to second-guess the work she does. It’s very, very important –

LEON COMPTON: But you’re not frustrated, given that this is a renewable energy project that is effectively ready to go, if it can be approved, contribute significantly into the renewable energy market in Australia, but struggling to understand whether it’s a yes or no from your government?

CHRIS BOWEN: No, because that’s the circumstances I have to work under and all proponents have to work under. You know, we have to comply with the environmental laws, and that applies to all projects, renewable or otherwise. I understand proponents would like it faster. Tanya has approved more renewable energy projects than any Environment Minister in Australian history. That’s a good thing. She takes those responsibilities seriously.

LEON COMPTON: On Marinus Link – again, hugely significant in the Tasmanian context – for people new to Mornings, it’s a proposed interconnector that would move electricity backwards and forwards between Tasmania and the mainland. Has it been delayed? There was a News Limited story last month –

CHRIS BOWEN: No.

LEON COMPTON: – suggesting the first part of the project might now be delivered in 2032. Apologies to those journos; I couldn’t find your names to credit you, but it was a News Limited story. 2032 – I thought it was scheduled to be completed in 2030, Minister?

CHRIS BOWEN: Yeah, and it’s not delayed; it’s on track to start in 2026. It’s an important project for Tasmania in two ways, Leon: it enables the creation of jobs through more renewable projects in Tasmania to enable export to the mainland, which is good for the Tasmanian economy. And also, it’s a two-way cable, so it enables when Tasmania needs energy, particularly an issue sometimes in a cold winter, for energy security for Tasmania. And, you know, just on Bass Link, which is, you know, when you’re just relying on one thing, you’re subject to it going wrong, not only for electricity but for communications, it’s a very good thing for Tasmania. We’re working closely with both the Tasmanian and the Victorian governments to make it a reality. And timeline-wise, it’s on schedule.

LEON COMPTON: Is the Federal Government still committed to a second Marinus interconnector?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, that’s an ongoing conversation we’re going to have to have with the Tasmanian and the Victorian governments. It is a two-cable project, but we are funding – the three governments – the first cable at this point. The discussion about when and whether to do a second cable is something that, you know, would be a good thing but has to be worked through cooperatively with the three governments.

LEON COMPTON: Does that suggest you’re quite open-minded as to whether or not a second cable goes ahead?

CHRIS BOWEN: Yeah, I mean, it’s really – I can’t pre-empt and get in front of the conversations we need to have with both the Victorian and Tasmanian governments.

LEON COMPTON: Chris Bowen is our guest this morning, about to head into a press conference and announce a renewable energy zone for Bass Strait, talking with us.

Chris Bowen, can I just ask you a final question: your opponent, the Leader of the Opposition Peter Dutton, is saying our energy future should increasingly involve nuclear. You’re committed to a greater renewables load. If Peter Dutton is elected in what’s expected to be a May election, does that mean all of this stuff stops? How should our listeners think about this this morning?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, it’s a good question, and there is a lot at stake and, yes, a lot of it would stop if Peter Dutton is elected Prime Minister because he just doesn’t believe in renewable energy. He doesn’t get the opportunities for Australia. He wants to stop and change direction and go down the nuclear road. Now, nuclear is very expensive and it takes a long, long time to build. And when you’ve got Australia’s great renewable advantages, I don’t know why you would just stop and make a conscious decision to say we’ve had enough of this cheap renewable energy, we want this expensive nuclear energy.

And you’ve commented on how long it can take to build renewable energy, but renewable energy is fast compared to nuclear. I mean, they say 2037. Well, I say that’s too – you know, they’re not going to meet 2037. They couldn’t get a nuclear reactor up by 2037 if they tried. But even if they could, it’s too late. I mean, we can’t be sitting around waiting till 2037 for one new power plant to come on. We need more energy now. And that’s why it’s important we keep going. 2024 will be a record year for renewable energy in Australia. More renewable energy added to our grid than any other year in Australian history. I think that’s a good thing. Peter Dutton thinks that’s a bad thing. There’s a real choice at the election.

LEON COMPTON: Chris Bowen, appreciate you joining us this morning.

CHRIS BOWEN: Good on you.

LEON COMPTON: Chris Bowen, Minister for Climate and Energy.