Interview with Lindsay McDougall, ABC Illawarra Drive

LINDSAY MCDOUGALL: Yes, and a few new developments in offshore wind in the Illawarra today. It's been confirmed currently BlueFloat is currently the only applicant to the Illawarra zone. You might remember OceanX and Equinor, and also that they now want to pause the process until after the federal election. The statement says they lodged an application for a feasibility licence in the offshore wind area back in August 2024. The application is still under assessment. They've requested the government consider not offering any licences in the Illawarra zone until after the upcoming federal election. So, what does this mean for the future of offshore wind in our region? Chris Bowen, the Minister for Climate Change and Energy, thank you so much for being with us.

CHRIS BOWEN:  That's OK.

LINDSAY MCDOUGALL: Hey, so can you tell us when did BlueFloat first contact you about this pause and what did they say?

CHRIS BOWEN: We have been in discussion with them for the last few weeks, indicating to them that it's possible that we might be ready to proceed to issue a licence. They've said that the uncertainty created by the Opposition's position would mean that they would like to have a pause until after the election.

LINDSAY MCDOUGALL: Alright. So, is that   I mean, is that what they said? Is it the Opposition's politics and their position that they're concerned about?

CHRIS BOWEN: Oh, look -

LINDSAY MCDOUGALL: Or is it community opposition, the economics of it all?

CHRIS BOWEN: No, no it's not   well, it's not community opposition. BlueFloat has always known that there's a range of views in the community. Some people against, many people for. Always known that something new like this is going to generate a lot of strong views in the community. This project's economics are different to some of the other projects, given it's floating in deep water and that has always been the case. Add to that the uncertainty created by an Opposition which is willing to rip up this zone, despite the fact, by the way, that, as I've always given due credit for, the legislation and the law which enables this zone to be created was created by Scott Morrison and he -

LINDSAY MCDOUGALL: And Angus Taylor, I believe as well.

CHRIS BOWEN: And Angus Taylor and Peter Dutton and all of them. All of them voted for it. Not just setting up offshore wind but also the consultation regime. A 60 days' consultation. That's all in the Liberal Party's legislation. They carry on now about, you know, 60 days isn't enough. Well, why did they write it into the law? I've implemented the law that they passed. But, look, offshore wind is new for Australia. That means that it does take, you know, considerable effort to get it up and running. It's existed around the world since the early 1990s. 1992 is when offshore wind started around the world in Europe. But it is new for Australia and, you know, you're going to get these things from time to time which are a small setback, but we keep going.

Also, I have issued licences today for the Hunter and Southern Ocean so other regions are capitalising on the opportunities, the job creation opportunities. Thousands of jobs to be created. We've still got some issues to work through with the Illawarra.

LINDSAY MCDOUGALL: I mean, if Labor wins the election, do you have a guarantee that BlueFloat will then want to un-pause, if the politics and the government isn't the issue, do you think BlueFloat may decide not to unpause?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, look, we'll continue to work   BlueFloat obviously wants to work with the Government and the Government wants to work with BlueFloat. Now, they've indicated that to us. We indicate that to them but, you know, also there will be   there will be considerable issues, I've always said. Issues to be worked through before this becomes reality. Not only economics but planning approvals and feasibility studies. We don't rush this, you know. This is big   a big deal for the Illawarra. We don't rush it.

LINDSAY MCDOUGALL: We have - I mean, Equinor and OceanX have - you know, they are two of the companies that were here before. They are not around here anymore.

CHRIS BOWEN: That's true.

LINDSAY MCDOUGALL: What alternatives are there to keep the project on track if BlueFloat pulls out?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, BlueFloat has indicated they want to pause. They haven't withdrawn, they've paused. That's important. We'll continue to work with them and then, you know, we obviously will work through all the options with them after the election, should we be re elected.

LINDSAY MCDOUGALL: Do you think the - the project here at the Illawarra - you talked about the economics being different. I mean, you have shrunk the size by almost two thirds since the first announcement. Is it too small to make it economically viable

CHRIS BOWEN: Look, I don't think so because even the BlueFloat proposal was a small proportion of the entire zone. You know, every individual wind farm is only a small area and that's the way the process is set up. You consult about the zone. You have a big zone and then you let proponents work through which part of that zone they might like to develop and BlueFloat chose a fairly small part of the zone but that's, again   that's the legislation that the previous government passed. I think that's, you know, a perfectly appropriate thing. I'm not complaining about that. That's the way the system's designed.

LINDSAY MCDOUGALL: Regardless of what the former government put into place, the   currently the Opposition, we've had the Liberals and Nationals both fielding a candidate in Whitlam. Gilmore is still very marginal. I guess that suggests   do you think offshore wind could cost the Labor Party the electorates of Gilmore and Whitlam?

CHRIS BOWEN: People will vote on a range of issues. People will vote about Medicare, vote about tax cuts for all, they'll vote about nuclear energy, they'll vote about the Opposition giving free lunches to bosses, they'll vote on all sorts of things, including offshore wind. I'm not saying that won't be an issue. But in my experience there's very, very few elections that are single issue elections. People will vote on the track record of your excellent MPs, Alison Byrnes and Fiona Phillips, and your excellent new candidate Carol Berry. These are the sorts of decisions that people will make. I don't think there's any one issue which will decide. There will be a range of issues. Offshore wind, of course, is very topical and will be up for debate and the Labor Party will be saying, "We want the jobs. We want the renewable energy. We've worked through this carefully. It's a very small area, it's a long way from the beach." You know, that's what we'll be saying. The Liberal Party will be saying, "Yeah, we know we set up the offshore wind industry. We know we set up a consultation, but for political reasons we're against it."

LINDSAY MCDOUGALL: There's been - you talked about jobs and there's been a lot of talk about the use of local steel. I guess the question people want to know is:  Will there be Wollongong steel in Wollongong's offshore wind project?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, let's get Wollongong an offshore wind project first and then, you know, this is the thing, you can have 100% of nothing. I'm working to get that up. But there is good news today and, look, I don't want to overstate this, this isn't a done deal but I am pleased that one of our Gippsland proposals   so we have a big wind zone off the Gippsland, off the south coast of Victoria   one of them, Southerly 10, they're called, they are in discussions with Bluescope about using Bluescope steel from Port Kembla in their wind farm off the coast of Victoria. Now, these are ongoing discussions. It's not a done deal yet but it shows the potential that is there for Port Kembla, not just for the Illawarra zone but for all the offshore wind we're building around Australia. That's actually the much bigger deal, potential for Australian steel, rather than one particular farm and one particular place. It's the opportunity in all of them.

LINDSAY MCDOUGALL: Well, Bluescope has been all over the news at the moment. They're touted as coming in to take over Whyalla steelworks after the government bailed them out. As a result of that bailout or as a result of the GFG Alliance defaulting on a bunch of debt, the South Australian Government's plan to build a major hydrogen electrolyser and power plant near Whyalla has effectively been scrapped. Is green hydrogen and therefore green steel kind of dead in the water at the moment?

CHRIS BOWEN: No. Obviously the economics need to be worked through and not every project is going to proceed, or proceed on the original timeline. But green steel is how we decarbonise steel. You know, if you think about countries around the world, they will increasingly demand   and companies   steel without carbon emissions, and that means that steel companies like Bluescope will need to compete against companies that are producing green steel and green hydrogen. Yes, obviously, sometimes projects will come up against different timelines and different economics, but ultimately green hydrogen is the only game in town to replace gas in industrial processes. I look at Germany, the industrial powerhouse of Europe. They are betting big time on green hydrogen to replace their reliance on Russian gas historically. So, no, the reports of the death of the green hydrogen industry are greatly exaggerated. Australia is one of the very key countries for green hydrogen. There's only a few countries around the world that can make green hydrogen at the levels the world requires because you've got to have a certain amount of space and a certain geography, so us and some Middle Eastern countries are right up there in terms of the countries best placed to produce green hydrogen into the future. It's not commercial today, it's not going to be produced in huge numbers tomorrow, but it is a very important part of the future.

LINDSAY MCDOUGALL: So, if we've got, I guess, different timelines for things like that and we've got a pause on at least our offshore wind project, what's going to happen to our Paris targets? Should Australia be focussing on 2050 rather than 2035?

CHRIS BOWEN: You’ve got to focus on them all. Now, the offshore wind was never really a strong part   never a part really at all of our 2030 target, because it was never going to be up and running by 2030, so not part of our 82% renewable energy, or our 43% emission reduction target. Is expected to come online between 2030 and 2035, but even then, you know, I'm not here to pretend that it was the bulk of our ambitions towards 2035 but we need to have continual progress in 2030, 2035, 2040. You can't start getting ready for net zero in 2050, in 2048. Life doesn't work that way. It's a big change. That's why I'm pleased with what we've done so far. We've now hit 46% renewable energy in our grid. That's up from a third when I came into office. That's huge in three years. But I tell you what, while we're more than halfway there, there's a long way to go to meet our targets and that's why it's pretty important, from my point of view, we get re elected so we can keep that work happening.

LINDSAY MCDOUGALL: One thing you mentioned today when you were on camera was   you were talking about solar power, apartments and strata. How do you get enough solar panels on a 10 storey apartment to power every home?

CHRIS BOWEN: Apartments are a challenge. Apartment towers are a challenge but, you know, we were at one today, admittedly is a 3 storey walk up but they've got 20 kilowatts on the roof and, you know, they've done it. We want to see more apartments having the option   we're not, you know, making it compulsory, but we're giving   we want to give apartment dwellers the same sorts of options that people who live in houses have because we lead the world in rooftop solar. A third of houses have rooftop solar but only 3% of apartments. And so, apartment dwellers are missing out on the opportunity. So, we were talking to the people who live there today about the massive bill savings they've had. So, this program we announced today, which is open for applications for apartments whose want to put rooftop solar on, we'll go halves with the cost. They can apply through the NSW Government, that will make it a lot easier, and we'll show some examples of what can be done and I think produce a lot of demonstration that this can be done. It can be done on apartments. It's harder but it can be done.

LINDSAY MCDOUGALL: Chris Bowen, thank you so much for being with ABC Illawarra this afternoon.

CHRIS BOWEN: Nice to chat. Good on you.