Interview with Madeleine Morris, ABC News Breakfast

MADELEINE MORRIS: Well Federal Minister for Energy and Climate Change Chris Bowen joins us now from Brisbane. Good morning, Minister.

CHRIS BOWEN: Good morning, Madeleine.

MADELEINE MORRIS: First of all, can I just get your reaction to the release, early release of Umar Patek?

CHRIS BOWEN: Look, I think all Australians would be concerned about this and the Australian Government is concerned about this on their behalf, and we have made, as you would expect, appropriate representations to the Indonesian Government.

Early release is not uncommon in Indonesia so our particular representations have gone to seeking reassurances that he'll continue to be monitored and appropriate protections will be in place.

We have made appropriate representations through the normal channels, as you would expect a responsible Australian Government to do, and that dialogue with our friends in the Indonesian Government will continue.

MADELEINE MORRIS: Will there be any repercussions for our relationship with Indonesia over this?

CHRIS BOWEN: Oh no, I think it's important that Australia maintains strong dialogue with Indonesia so we can have those discussions, and that's exactly what we will do. These issues do come up in the relationship between all countries, but particularly between Australia and Indonesia with different legal systems.

It's appropriate that the Australian Government make strong representations to the Indonesian Government, which we have done and will continue to do. Australians have every right to be disappointed and concerned by this news.

We do understand and respect the differences with the Indonesian system so therefore it's best we just, you know, engage in that dialogue with them to ensure that all the necessary protections, all possible protections are being put in place.

MADELEINE MORRIS: Yeah, but I mean we heard from a family member of a survivor there that he is still worried about his capacity to be radicalised, that he may not have changed. Does that concern you? Should Australians be concerned about that?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, that's a very understandable concern. Now we understand Indonesia says that in his time in prison he has been de radicalised, and of course that can happen. But of course, that's one of the things that we'll be engaging with the Indonesian Government about, seeking those reassurances, seeking those further discussions.

I think Indonesia does understand Australia's keen interest in these matters. They do very much feel what Australians are going through as well. Indonesians and Australians were killed by these terrible murderers.

Indonesians and Australians went through this terrible ordeal together and now we are dealing with the ramifications together, understanding and respecting that Indonesia has their own legal system. Indonesia's legal system does tend to lead to long sentences with early release, so we do understand that. We've been through that before.

But it is absolutely appropriate that through our embassies and consulates the Australian Government makes all the necessary representations to the Indonesian Government on behalf of Australian citizens, whether they be in Australia or in Indonesia, to ensure that all the necessary and possible contemplated protections and measures will be put in place going forward as this man gets released.

MADELEINE MORRIS: Just on to the reason that you're in Brisbane today, which is for that meeting with your State and Territory counterparts about trying to bring down power prices. How close are you to securing an agreement to cap coal and gas prices?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, I guess there's two processes under way here, Madeleine, two very important processes. We have an Energy Ministers' meeting here in Brisbane today. This is the fourth Energy Ministers' meeting I've had in my six months as Energy Minister because we have a lot to do with our State and Territory colleagues. And as always there's a real spirit of cooperation around the table, recognising that we must work together on these very big challenges. I expect that will play out again today.

Our main job today is to settle something that's been in the too hard basket for too long, what's called a capacity mechanism. It's really a keep the lights on mechanism to ensure that our transition to renewables happens more quickly and in a more orderly fashion. We've been working very, very hard on that and I'll be looking to take that agreement to the next steps with my State and Territory colleagues today.

Separately, the Prime Minister and Premiers are meeting tomorrow. Of course, that was delayed a couple of days because of the Prime Minister's illness. I did note that the opposition in a rather low rent attack called for that meeting to go ahead even though the Prime Minister was unwell, which I thought was a pretty silly and unfortunate intervention.

But the Prime Minister will be talking to the Premiers, particularly those coal state Premiers about sensible interventions and responses. That work has been happening between governments, both between the Prime Minister and Premiers, me and my energy minister colleagues, the Treasurer has obviously been very, very closely involved. As you would expect those discussions continue.

I've read various things in the newspaper, most of which have not been accurate about where these discussions are at. They'll continue over the next 24 hours because it's our job as governments to work together to ensure that the worst impacts of Putin's invasion of Ukraine on the world energy markets do not flow through to Australian industries and business without a response.

MADELEINE MORRIS: Yeah.

CHRIS BOWEN: We need to take the sting out of those impacts. Of course, Australia is poorly placed because we've had 10 years of denial and delay. We had four gigawatts of energy generation leave the grid and only one gigawatt come on. So we are poorly placed, so we are responding, but we are working very closely, particularly with those coal States.

MADELEINE MORRIS: Sure.

CHRIS BOWEN: For the most sensibly designed intervention possible.

MADELEINE MORRIS: Sure. Just on that, I mean as you say it is actually largely down to the invasion of Ukraine that we have seen this real spike in energy prices. There are other factors as well. But if what is being discussed, which we understand which is compensation in some sense to states, but also to fossil fuel companies, why should the taxpayer be compensating fossil fuel companies who haven't actually seen their input costs go up, it's just that the prices that they can get on the wider international market are going up? Why should we pay for that?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, Madeleine, as I said I've seen lots of stories written about what we've been discussing. Some of those have happened to be. 

MADELEINE MORRIS: Is that untrue?

CHRIS BOWEN:  -- had some truth to it. Some of them have had some truth to it and some of them haven't. But, you know, that's just the way of the world. I understand that doesn't worry me. But I will say this. You are right. It is not acceptable simply for some companies to make massive profits because of the invasion, to make massive profits off effectively a war situation and for other Australian businesses, heavy industries relying strongly on gas, on energy costs, to pay the price, and in some cases have their viability threatened, and for Australian households to do that. I mean governments cannot and will not stand by and let that happen.

MADELEINE MORRIS: So, is compensation on the table?

CHRIS BOWEN: That would be a thoroughly, that would be a thoroughly irresponsible thing to do. At the same time, we need to weigh up obviously existing contracts and sensible, grown-up management of existing contractual arrangements that have already been put in place. Now that's the tenor of the conversations between the Commonwealth and New South Wales and Queensland in particular as the two black coal states. We'll continue those conversations in good faith. They have been occurring at a very intense pace over the last week and those conversations, as you would expect, will continue and I do want to say I think everybody's acting in good faith here. The Commonwealth and the states, acting in good faith because, you know, we have various different powers available to us under our respective constitutions and respective legislative frameworks.

We want, our approach, the Albanese Government, has been to frame a response which is the most effective, and where our powers are most effective, we won't hesitate to use them. Where State powers are hesitant, we're talking to the States about them using them in a very cooperative fashion.

MADELEINE MORRIS: Can I just ask you really briefly while I've got you, Minister, how much is Clough going into administration going to threaten the transition, the energy transition that you are working towards, the States and Territories are working towards, because they were involved in some pretty big and important renewables, including Snowy 2.0?

CHRIS BOWEN: Yeah, you're right, Madeleine, and for your viewers Snowy 2.0 is a very important project, the previous government's project. It's a good project but it was running 18 months late already. Now we have one of the major participants in that project going into administration.

I've been talking to the Chief Executive of Snowy Hydro. They are working hard to put measures in place to ensure as much continuity as possible. Most of the onsite workers were employed by different entities, not by Clough. There are a number of workers who are supporting the project who are employed by Clough. We're working with the administrators and with other companies to ensure as smooth a transition as possible as Clough exits, as they go into administration. To ensure that as far as humanly possible there is no impact because Snowy was already running late, which is a big problem for our energy system.

It was already running 18 months late when we came to office. We've been working to get that back; Snowy Hydro's been working to get that back under control. Obviously, we would have preferred this hadn't happened. But I will say, Madeleine, we weren't surprised. We weren't surprised by this. We had contingency plans in place and those contingency plans are being implemented.

MADELEINE MORRIS: All right. Thanks so much for your time this morning, Chris Bowen.

CHRIS BOWEN: Great, my pleasure, Madeleine.