Interview with Jenny Marchant and Dan Cox, ABC Newcastle

JENNY MARCHANT: Nuclear power or renewable? The national conversation is centred around where we'll get our electricity in the future, and as usual, The Hunter is at the heart of it.

This time yesterday the Federal Opposition Leader was announcing the sites his party's proposing for future nuclear power plants. And as you'd know by now, Liddell, just outside Muswellbrook, is among them.

DAN COX: Today the Government's announcing the next steps in its planned offshore wind project off our coast. The Minister for Climate Change and Energy Chris Bowen joins you. Good morning, Minister.

CHRIS BOWEN: Good morning, guys, nice to chat.

DAN COX: You too. You're announcing a feasibility licence being given to companies interested in building this. It sounds like they'll work together, Equinor and Oceanex, on one project within the declared zone. So what happens now?

CHRIS BOWEN: Yeah, that's right. I'm announcing today my intention to issue a feasibility licence to one of the applicants in The Hunter offshore wind zone, the Newcastle offshore wind zone, and that successful applicant at this stage is Novocastrian Wind, that's the joint project between Equinor and Oceanex.

The process is that we had eight applications. I've sorted those through and chosen one to proceed to the next step. Subject to some further consultation the other applicants have a chance now to make a case, and there's also consultation with First Nations and other groups before our final decision is made, but in the interests of transparency this is what we're up to.

Now this one proposal, Novocastrian, which is at the southern end of the Hunter declared area, so very much at the Newcastle end, is capable of providing up to two gigawatts of electricity. That's enough for 1.2 million homes, or two Tomago smelters, which is the largest electricity user in New South Wales. To give you an idea of the scale of the sort of renewable energy we can get from even just one proposal in The Hunter offshore wind zone.

JENNY MARCHANT: Why do we need a feasibility process like this? What do they actually do?

CHRIS BOWEN: So this is the way the Act, the Offshore Wind Act works. It basically has multiple stages to make sure we get this right.

The first stage was the zone. As I said at the time, you know, I declared the zone but there was a long way to go. The next stage is to call for applications for feasibility licences, pick the best ones, or in this case one, and then they have now they have the licence to further explore, you know, just to make sure that everything they've assumed is correct in terms of the engineering, the geo work, the ocean bottom work, et cetera.

Once that all works then they get, if that all works, a commercial licence from the Government and then they've separately got to get environmental approvals, which is quite separate from me. It's under the Environmental Biodiversity Act, the Protection Biodiversity Act, they have to get those separate environmental approvals.

So, some way to go but an important step forward today.

DAN COX: What made this the best one, the best company to give it to? I note that the others were found to be of lower merit. Talk us through that?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, look, I won't go through all of the details.

DAN COX: No.

CHRIS BOWEN: But look, we look at the amount of energy created, the credibility of the company involved, the amount of financial backing, the community benefit, the number of jobs created. In this case, we are looking at 3,000 jobs during construction and an ongoing 2 [200] to 300 permanent local jobs. And we look at all those things and community benefit is something that we'll have more to say about, not just today but in coming weeks and months, to ensure – if The Hunter's going to host these, I want to ensure very real and genuine benefits for the community, and we'll be working with Oceanex, should they proceed to the next stage, to ensure that that's the case.

There's a very exhaustive process. That's why, you know, these applications closed some months ago, it takes some time to work through to make sure we get it right.

JENNY MARCHANT: We often hear from local people who are concerned about the environmental impact of wind zones and proposals like this one. So the feasibility process does include environmental studies, but people are worried about whales, the sea bed, marine life. What are you looking for in those environmental studies before you allow this to go ahead?

CHRIS BOWEN: I guess there's a couple of points here. Firstly, yes, and that's one of the things we look at is their plans. You know, who's got the best environmental management plan is one of the criteria we work through.

Separately, as I said, they have to go through environmental approvals. Now whales co-exist with offshore wind around the world today. Offshore has existed since the early 1990s in Europe. We're catching up, we're very late to this. But it is a very important issue for us, obviously, as a key whale migration area. But whales also co-exist with offshore gas rigs and offshore oil rigs and cargo ships in and out. I mean they're very smart animals. But that doesn't mean that we don't need to take into account how we can best co-exist with them, and there's plenty of, you know, good technologies around the world and research to show that they can co-exist, but you've got to get it right.

Again, as part of this, if you like, two-track process, both in the part that I'm responsible for with the feasibility and licences, et cetera, and then separately and quite appropriately different to me they have to go through environmental approvals.

Now they have to put in studies and those studies have to be to the satisfaction of the Federal Environment Minister and the Federal Environment Department to ensure that they've taken into account all the issues and have appropriate plans in place.

JENNY MARCHANT: Is it the case then, Minister, that this wouldn't go ahead unless you were rock solid certain that there would be no adverse impact on marine life or the sea bed?

CHRIS BOWEN: As I said –

JENNY MARCHANT: That is the case?

CHRIS BOWEN: That's – of course all the necessary protections will be put in place. As I said, offshore wind co-exists with marine life around the world.

We make changes where we see a case. So, I reduced a zone because there were some concerns about a certain species of bird, for example.

But also, also, we've also got to remember this, the biggest impact on all these species is climate change. That is what will see species go extinct.

What we don't do is compromise on environmental concerns. We've shown that. You know, we've rejected offshore wind developments, related developments where they don't meet environmental standards, and we'll continue with that process, but we'll also continue to roll out well-planned, good renewable energy investments.

DAN COX: So, wind power isn't universally popular here. In the last 24 hours, we've learnt more about the Coalition's plans for nuclear power. Are you concerned that that would affect support for a wind farm even further?

CHRIS BOWEN: Look, I mean did we really hear that much about the Opposition's plans yesterday? We heard seven sites, one of them at Muswellbrook. No consultation with the community.

I mean you're right, there are different views about offshore wind, it's controversial and there's strong supporters and there's opponents. But there's been consultation.

No consultation with the people of Muswellbrook or The Hunter to plonk a nuclear reactor in your community by the Opposition. Absolute chaos on that side. You've had the Deputy Leader of the National Party say communities don't want it, they won't proceed. Then you've had the leader of the National Party say, "No, that's not right. They're getting it whether they like it or not".

This is just not good policy. Now, there will be a choice at the next election. The Coalition's going down this nuclear fantasy which is slow to build, expensive to build, and therefore will put power prices up when they eventually get built. But they will not be on a timeline that is feasible or reasonable for Australia, not only to reduce emissions but to replace ageing coal fired power stations.

Now contrast with this, you know, today I'm issuing a notice of intention to issue a feasibility licence, i.e. getting on with the job. Getting on with it. Actual practical plans worked through sensibly. You know, it doesn't mean that everyone loves them, but it's been a very exhaustive process, as opposed to this on the back of an envelope, scribbled over a serviette thought bubble that we're getting from the other side.

JENNY MARCHANT: We are hearing though from ABC Newcastle listeners this morning who in some cases think that renewable projects like wind farms, solar farms also, take up a lot of space, don't look great in the opinion of some on our text line today, and prefer nuclear for that reason. Do they have a point?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, I don't support nuclear energy because it's expensive and slow to build and will be a massive threat to the reliability of our energy system because it would keep coal-fired power in our grid longer and would see our emissions stay up for longer. But also, there are huge issues to be worked through with it.

As opposed to renewables, which yes, we have issues to manage, and we have to co-exist. I'll take, for example, some people look at the wind, offshore wind zone and think, "Oh, I can't fish in there anymore". Well, that's actually not right. We have, and I'm talking a little bit about this today based on international experience, there'll be a small exclusion zone around each turbine, but the turbines are generally two kilometres apart and within that, you can fish, you know, within a 50-metre exclusion zone around each turbine. But they're two kilometres apart, that's plenty of room for fishing to continue and for fishermen to egress and enter through there to get to their preferred fishing area on the other side.

So, whether it's fishing or whether it is environmental concerns, there are issues that can be worked through. There's also plenty of disinformation out there. In some cases, in some cases deliberately spread by opponents of renewable energy, like the Coalition.

DAN COX: Minister, does the Opposition's announcement of nuclear plans for Liddell slow down your plans to manufacture solar panels there?

CHRIS BOWEN: No, because the owner of here's the other problem with the Opposition's fantasy. The owner of the Liddell power station has said very clearly they are not interested in having a nuclear power plant on their land. I mean it is their land. I don't know what Peter Dutton thinks he's going to do. You can't just waltz up and say to somebody who owns the land, "By the way, you're getting a nuclear power plant". They don't want that. What they want is a renewable energy hub. What they want is SunDrive making solar panels on their land, employing more people than were ever employed at the Liddell power station on that one project, and many more projects to come.

I mean yesterday Peter Dutton was talking about compulsorily acquiring the Liddell power station off AGL, who does not want to use it for a nuclear power plant. I mean this is just crazy stuff. Crazy stuff.

JENNY MARCHANT: Minister, we'll continue that conversation in the weeks and months ahead. Thank you for being here this morning.

CHRIS BOWEN: Always a pleasure, good on you.