Interview with Michael Rowland, ABC News Breakfast

MICHAEL ROWLAND: Let's go to federal politics now. And the government has softened carbon emission limits for utes and vans in a bid to win over carmakers who feared the original proposal would drive up prices. For more let's bring in the climate change and Energy Minister Chris Bowen. Minister, good morning to you.

CHRIS BOWEN: Same to you, Michael.

MICHAEL ROWLAND: Is this a concession in announcing the compromise plan that perhaps, perhaps the government should have consulted more widely at the very start of this process?

CHRIS BOWEN: No, it's a result of a very extensive consultation. We announced a preferred position in February and announced we'd be consulting on that and taking - hoovering up all good ideas in the industry. And that followed two consultation papers last year, separate consultation papers, with hundreds of submissions coming in and thousands of submissions to our preferred position. So, this is what a good government does, Michael, puts out a policy, consults on it, makes sure that we've thought of all the particular ideas and implications, and then hoovers up good ideas to help us implement it better. That's exactly what we've done.

MICHAEL ROWLAND: But clearly the preferred position didn't fly with key stakeholders like the car companies.

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, had a lot of support from car companies like Hyundai and Volvo and Volkswagen and obviously the Polestar and Tesla. But we also did have issues raised by Toyota. We talked to them about that. We heard those concerns. And not just Toyota, but the small businesses, the dealers, the Motor Traders Association, they talked to us about how they supported the government's efforts, but there were some implementation challenges they'd need assistance on. You know, when somebody comes in my office or Catherine King's office with a good idea who say, "look, we agree with what you're trying to achieve here, but here's some ideas about how you can help us do it." We listen to that and that's exactly what's happened. And we've kept the same, very similar level of ambition in relation to emissions reduction. We've kept the same level ambition when it comes to better choices for Australian motorists. But we've worked with the industry on a sensible way of implementing it.

MICHAEL ROWLAND: Was one of those good ideas which you announced as part of this compromise plan, reclassifying some of the more popular SUVs in Australia to light commercial vehicle status so the fuel emission standards weren't as tough on them?

CHRIS BOWEN: Yes. And where you've got some vehicles which effectively are the same car, so you've got the same engine capacity, the same chassis, but in some models, you've got a Ute tray at the back and in other models you've got some seats. We've decided to classify them the same. And that I see as a pretty modest tweak, but one that is important in helping some of the car companies with the adjustments which they need to make. You know, Michael, more broadly, this is a reform that's been in a too hard basket for 20 years. It's been promised by multiple governments. Multiple governments have failed to do it. The Howard Government promised to do it and didn't do it. The Morrison Government and the Turnbull Government promised to do it and failed to do it. We said we'd do it and we're going to do it and a course with a big reform like this, which has been in a too hard basket for 20 years. We put it on the to do list. The sensible thing is to sit down with people of good faith, have a talk about how we're going to do it. If they've got good ideas, take them on board. That's what Catherine King and I did.

MICHAEL ROWLAND: And yet we had the boss of Toyota, who was standing alongside you and Catherine King at the press conference yesterday, saying even these changes may not be enough to avert price increases. What do you say to that?

CHRIS BOWEN: No, that's not what he said. I was there, Michael.

MICHAEL ROWLAND: What did he say?

CHRIS BOWEN: He said that this would continue to be a challenge to implement. And of course it will. I mean, we haven't introduced this policy for business as usual. We've introduced this policy so that chief executives like Matt Callachor yesterday can go to his board in Tokyo and say, "guys, the rules have changed in Australia. I'm now obliged to bring more efficient vehicles. You have to help me do that." That is exactly -

MICHAEL ROWLAND: Are you confident - excuse the interruption, that your changes will not result in price increases based on the new standards?

CHRIS BOWEN: That has not been the case anywhere else in the world

MICHAEL ROWLAND: But are you confident here? That's the rest of the world, but are you confident that won't happen here?

CHRIS BOWEN: Michael, you asked me a question. If you could let me answer it, I'd appreciate it. That hasn't happened anywhere else in the world. It wasn't the case for the preferred model. It's not the case for the model we put out yesterday. That's what Paul Fletcher said when he tried to introduce it. He said, the price of no cars will go up. He was right then. He's been engaged with his colleagues in a pathetic little scare campaign now, which just shows how negative they've become. They were opposing our policies and their own policies they were advocating just a few years ago. This is about better choices for Australians. So many Australians say to me they want to have the chance to buy an EV or a hybrid, but there aren't enough affordable models in Australia for them to choose from. Other Australians say, "I'm not quite ready for that, but I'd like a more efficient petrol vehicle. There are so many more efficient petrol vehicles available in the rest of the world." Australia and Russia are the only two countries in the world, major countries, without these efficiency standards. We're fixing that finally.

MICHAEL ROWLAND: Okay, I want to ask you quickly about the other big issue at the moment. That's the government's new, I guess, hardline approach to migration laws. You hope to have those laws come into effect by the end of today, if I read your plans correctly. So, you want to make it easier for the government to kick out of Australia people in detention, people on bridging visas, some people on bridging visas who no longer have a right to be in the country. If countries refuse to accept them, the government under your plans has a right to refuse visas in any category from those companies. So, we're talking about a potential travel ban here, aren't we, on some countries?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, that is not a term which is vaguely relevant to what we're doing, with respect, Michael. What we're doing here, and this has been a long and intractable problem going back from before I was Immigration Minister many years ago, I was dealing with similar issues. Every Immigration Minister has had to deal with them. Let me be clear. People who are not refugees, we are not talking about refugees. We are talking about people who came to Australia, overstayed a visa or came under false pretences or for whatever reason, do not qualify for an ongoing visa in Australia, but refused to go homes. And they have no grounds to stay, they have no refugee status, they have no skills visa, and they refuse to go home. And for the appropriate implementation of a rigorous Australian immigration system, the Australian Government should have the right to send them home. Otherwise, our immigration system will continue to come under pressure from people who are not refugees, have no claim to stay, but just say, "well, you can go away because I refuse to leave." And they clog up our detention centre and make it very difficult. So, this is a sensible reform to give the government more scope to deal with people like that.

MICHAEL ROWLAND: Okay, lots going on there, so I really appreciate your time this morning. Thank you.

CHRIS BOWEN: Pleasure, Michael. Thank you.