Interview with Nick Grimm, ABC AM

NICK GRIMM: Energy policy is looming as a major election issue, with the government and the Opposition disagreeing on the role of gas in helping Australia move to renewables. The Federal Opposition's energy spokesman, Ted O'Brien, wants taxpayers to subsidise new gas projects to buttress existing electricity networks through the Capacity Investment Scheme, usually only open to renewables. But with an election approaching and its poll numbers starting to slide, it's another unwelcome distraction for the Albanese Government. Also on the defensive today over the Prime Minister buying a multi-million dollar oceanfront home as the rest of the nation struggles with a housing crisis. Chris Bowen is the Climate Change and Energy Minister.

Chris Bowen – the Capacity Investment Scheme – are you going to hold the line on your current settings given that a respected energy analyst like Tony Wood from the Grattan Institute is saying the Opposition's idea isn't such a bad one?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, let me make a couple of points. Firstly, the Capacity Investment Scheme is something that the previous government promised but couldn't deliver. We've actually delivered it and it's working exceptionally well with the current policy settings. So, yes, of course we're keeping the current policy settings and Mr O'Brien has some questions to answer. Firstly, he said it will apply to existing gas. Well, why is he going to provide windfall gains potentially to people who are already in the market? The Capacity Investment Scheme is about bringing new energy supply, which is about what we so desperately need, not providing windfall gains to people who are already there. So, he needs to explain how his settings will work. And secondly, gas is much more expensive to bring on than renewables. So, how's it going to win auctions unless he puts his finger on the scales and pushes it towards gas? Gas has been included in the NSW scheme for years and has never won a single auction because it's very expensive compared to renewables. So –

NICK GRIMM: But why shouldn't –

CHRIS BOWEN: Mr O'Brien's plan has massive gaping holes in it.

NICK GRIMM: Yeah, Minister. Why shouldn't gas peaking plants though be subsidised if it's the best way to ensure reliable power supply though?

CHRIS BOWEN: Because the economics of gas peaking is very different. Well, being very clear, gas peaking has a role to play. Our policy is renewables and government support for renewables to get to 82 per cent backed by batteries, backed by storage and with gas peaking in a system. But gas peaking does not need Commonwealth Government support, a government intervention to support gas, existing gas. Gas, which is already in the system, which is what Mr O'Brien said, just makes no sense. He's making it up as he goes.

NICK GRIMM: But just to be clear, the Opposition is proclaiming gas is here to stay if it wins the next election. But it's not exactly going anywhere under your government, it's part of the energy mix going forward. And this whole discussion puts you in an awkward position on your left flank with the Greens arguing against any public money going towards fossil fuels.

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, there's a clear difference here between the Labor party and the Liberal party. The Liberal party believes in ongoing fossil fuel subsidies for gas from the Federal Government. The Labor party does not. Now the Greens, you know, can position and say all they like. The next election is a choice between Mr Dutton and Mr Albanese. Mr Albanese will have a plan to continue on the path to get to 82 per cent renewables. Mr Dutton will bring in nuclear and ongoing support, Federal Government support for gas. That's a clear difference.

NICK GRIMM: Chris Bowen, can I also ask you about the focus at the moment that's been thrown onto the Prime Minister's acquisition of an oceanfront home on the NSW Central Coast? Did Mr Albanese discuss that purchase with you or any of your colleagues?

CHRIS BOWEN: Of course he didn't and nor should he have. Every Australian is entitled to buy and sell property. Now Anthony cops it when he sells the property. He cops it when he provides a rent holiday to his tenants. He cops it when he buys a property. I think most average Australians say fair enough. You know, this is what aspiration is about, most average Australians say, well, you know, we all buy and sell properties. We should be judged on our policies, our policies for Build to Rent, our policies for Help to Buy, our policies to help Australians get into housing market, which the Liberals and the Greens have combined to block.

They are the ones with questions to answer. Anthony, who has, you know, his life circumstances have changed. He's getting married, which is a wonderful thing. He is perfectly entitled to plan a property portfolio. That's what he's doing. And most Australians, average Australians will say, fair enough, good on the bloke, leave him alone.

NICK GRIMM: Yeah, but were you blindsided by this? Should the Prime Minister have workshopped the optics of this with his colleagues, buying a flash home when so many Australians are struggling to get into the housing market or even rent somewhere affordable?

CHRIS BOWEN: Nick, with respect, I don't go and talk to the Prime Minister about, you know, my finances. He doesn't come and talk to me about his, nor should he. If he had I would have said, mate, you do what you think is necessary for your family. With respect, he's the Prime Minister. He's also an Australian citizen and I think the average Australian says, fair enough. Leave him alone. I'll criticise his policies or I'll support his policies. I'll criticise or support his government. I'm not going to criticise or support what he does in his own bank account with his own money.

NICK GRIMM: Chris Bowen, thanks very much for talking to us here on AM.

CHRIS BOWEN: Good on you, Nick. Cheers.