Interview with Sabra Lane, ABC AM

SABRA LANE: The UN climate meeting in Egypt is supposed to end in under 24 hours, but like previous COP, or Conference of Parties events meetings are running long into the night because attendees can’t agree on key points. People are tired and grumpy while trying to do deals on financing for poor countries to adapt to a warming planet and to compensate for losses. UN chief Antonio Guterres says it’s no time for finger-pointing, that the blame game is a recipe for mutually assured destruction. Australia is represented by Chris Bowen, the Federal Climate Change and Energy Minister. We spoke earlier.

Chris Bowen, the host of these talks, Sameh Shukri, says the progress of some negotiations needs to reflect the gravity of the crisis. You’re leading negotiations on getting a finance package for energy transition for emerging countries. What’s progress like? Will you get an agreement that everyone’s happy with?

CHRIS BOWEN: I certainly think in the area, Sabra, that I’ve been given responsibility for by the COP Presidency to negotiate, yes. Very confident and hopeful about that. I’ve been spending many hours negotiating that through, and while there’s more work to do this evening – it’s about 9 o’clock our time; we’ll be going for several hours yet – but I do believe there’ll be progress.

But across the board there’s lots of areas of importance and discussions. The nature of these things is that, you know, there’ll be more hours of talk again.

SABRA LANE: Given the meeting that the Prime Minister had earlier this week with the Chinese President Xi, has that had any flow-on effect there at that meeting?

CHRIS BOWEN: Yeah, look, I think it’s fair to say it has, Sabra. So, I met today with my counterpart, the Special Envoy for Climate Change, Mr Xi Shenhua, and the vice minister, Mr Shao Yingmin, the first time an Australian climate minister has met with the Chinese minister since I believe 2017. So that’s a step forward.

Obviously China is the world’s – one of the world’s biggest emitters. Obviously, there’s been cooperation between Australia and China in the past on climate initiatives. That ceased several years ago. The most important thing about this meeting is that it occurred so quickly after the Prime Minister’s meeting with the President. I think it shows a willingness now to engage. We didn’t make any concrete agreements, but we agreed that it was a good thing that we get to know each other and have a dialogue and keep in contact.

SABRA LANE: You warned this week that there was a moral imperative for financial institutions including the World Bank to work with developed and developing countries to increase climate funding available that doesn’t saddle these countries with unsustainable debt. How has the World Bank responded to that?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well I haven’t heard from them but I believe, I’m not the only Minister who believes that. I’ve had discussions with counterparts. I know my Canadian counterpart feels just as strongly. Some international finance institutions have made the adjustment and have stepped up, the World Bank hasn’t been one of them, there’s no point ignoring that. Our expectations are very clear, this task is too big for large multilateral institutions like the World Bank to stand by as passengers while government right around the world together with communities are dealing with this urgent crisis. We want the World Bank to step up and we’ll continue to engage with them and we’ll continue to call it as we see it and that is that the World Bank must do better.

SABRA LANE: Is there a moral imperative for Australia to stop opening new coal and gas fields, and are you planning to use the safeguard mechanism to limit and police carbon emissions from new projects?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, I certainly – the government will certainly be using the safeguard mechanism to improve the regulation of emissions across the board. And obviously I’ve got more to say about that when I return back to Australia, the safeguards reforms are important to reduce emissions from our 215 biggest emitters. And I’ll be putting a lot more detail about that in the not-too-distant future out for public discussion.

SABRA LANE: Yeah, is there a moral imperative for Australia to stopping opening new coal and gas fields?

CHRIS BOWEN: There’s a moral imperative for Australia to act on climate change. I don’t think there’s – I don’t think there’s any news in me saying that. And we’ll be engaging very strongly and continue to engage in all those reforms, Sabra.

SABRA LANE: Australia is pitching to co-host a summit in 2026 with the region. Vanuatu says that the Albanese government has been a breath of fresh air, but the Foreign Minister says his government couldn’t endorse Australia co-hosting this bid if it continues to invest more money in develops fossil fuels. And he’s calling on other Pacific countries to adopt the same stance. Is your bid dead if you don’t do that?

CHRIS BOWEN: Sabra, on the contrary. I had a great meeting with the Vanuatu minister. He expressed, as you said, strong support for the agenda of the Albanese government. He said we were a breath of fresh air et cetera. He said that publicly and privately. He also, like many colleagues, had questions about our policies, which we had a good chat about. I must say on the bid, Sabra, there’s been not only support from the region, from the Pacific – because we see it very much as a Pacific bid – but I’ll leave other countries to announce their position in due course, but let’s just say the level of support we’ve received from right around the world has been very, very encouraging for the bid.

SABRA LANE: Is Australia going to commit funds to the loss and damage compensation scheme as some nations are demanding?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, let’s just take this – let’s just step this through, Sabra. Firstly, what is loss and damage? Lose and damage is about developed countries helping developing countries deal with the impacts of climate change on them. You know, natural disasters are up more than 80 per cent since the 1980s, and they impact every country. But the economic impact is bigger in developing countries, and yes developed countries should be helping developing countries deal with that. That in many ways underpins our commitment to increase foreign aid to the Pacific by $900 million in the budget just a couple of weeks ago and our climate financing facility.

Now in relation to your question about loss and damage facilities, we supported this going on to the agenda. I’ve been talking to Pacific countries in particular about how this gets dealt with at the COP. And there has been no agreement on this across the board yet, so we’re getting way ahead of ourselves in terms of what it looks like.

SABRA LANE: All right, but it’s a yes or no –

CHRIS BOWEN: But I suspect this will be – no, I respect, Sabra you’re asking me how we’ll respond to a facility which does not yet exist and which has not been agreed at this COP yet.

SABRA LANE: Chris Bowen, thanks for your time this morning on AM.

CHRIS BOWEN: Good on you, Sabra. It’s good evening from you, and good morning to you. And have a great day, and I’ll just get back to negotiations.

SABRA LANE: The Federal Climate Change Minister, Chris Bowen.