Interview with Sally Sara, ABC Radio National Breakfast

SALLY SARA: Joining me now is Chris Bowen, the Federal Minister for Climate Change and Energy. Minister, welcome back to Radio National Breakfast.

CHRIS BOWEN: Good morning, Sally. Thanks.

SALLY SARA: What's your response to the Liberal Party's decision to abandon its commitment to net zero?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, Sally, sadly the climate deniers have won the battle in the coalition. What we saw yesterday was a blancmange of contradictory, internally inconsistent statements and claims. All an alibi to avoid action on the greatest environmental challenge and economic opportunity of our time. Now, I regret that. I wish it wasn't the case. I wish the Liberal Party was engaged in better economics and better discussions about the pathway to net zero, but they've chosen to declare themselves completely irrelevant to the main issues that are so important for Australia's future. It's a matter for them. I'd prefer it wasn't that way. But they've been engaged in internal battle for the better part of 20 years and the climate denial movement has won. David Littleproud is now effectively the leader of the Opposition and Barnaby Joyce is calling the shots and dragging the party to the climate denial right.

SALLY SARA: Is it possible to remain in the Paris Agreement but remove current emissions reduction targets from national legislation, as the Liberals say they would do if returned to government?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, effectively not, because the Paris Agreement requires countries to set five yearly targets and for those targets to be the maximum level of possible ambition and for each target to be stronger than the last and allows no backsliding. So I'm not quite sure. I mean, I've seen Mr. Tehan and Ms. Ley asked about this and their answers, with all due respect, haven't been coherent as to how you could justify staying in the Paris Agreement but not having any long-term targets.

SALLY SARA: Has Labor left itself politically vulnerable after the Prime Minister to bring down power prices and failed to deliver on that? Should your government have been more upfront about the costs of and the risks of energy transition when it comes to energy prices?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, Sally, we had an election in May and climate and energy were big issues. Mr Dutton, I wish him well, but he's no longer around, said he wanted that election to be a referendum on climate and energy. And we were up for that. We were clear with the Australian people we'd face challenges. We were clear with the Australian people what those challenges were and what we were doing about it. And the people told us in May to keep going. Now we got that memo, the coalition appears not to have gotten that memo.

Now we're making progress, we've seen wholesale energy prices come down 27 per cent year on year in the last quarter. Wholesale energy prices at the time of the 2022 election were $317. In October, they were $67. We've got a lot more to do. We've announced our solar sharer programme to ensure that Australians have access to three hours of free power in the middle of the day, for example. We've got a lot more to do in making sure that Australians are in charge of their energy use and needs, and as part of our [indistinct] …

SALLY SARA: [Interrupts] In retrospect, was it a mistake to make that promise of bringing prices down?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, we made those statements in 2022 based on modelling in 2021. We were very clear during that term that we were facing challenges. The Australian people knew that. That was no secret. And they cast their judgement on us in May and they cast their judgement on us on the Coalition in May and asked us to keep going with that programme. That's what we've done.

SALLY SARA: The Coalition has also been talking about pushback from rural and regional Australia where some of the renewable projects, many will be based. Have you been fronting town hall style meetings in regional Australia to better explain the need for these projects?

CHRIS BOWEN: I certainly spend a lot of time in regional Australia and going to spend more in coming weeks before Christmas. And, you know, including large meetings in the Hunter Valley et cetera, where people have asked for more renewable energy. I think that there's a disconnect here. Farmers are strongly in favour of climate action. You know, I think it's arguable that Farmers for Climate Action has more members than the National Party. We don't quite know that because the National Party doesn't release their figures, but I think you could draw that conclusion.

People in regional Australia see climate change every day. They live it. And as the National Risk Assessment outlined a month or so ago, people in regional Australia, as well as the outer suburbs, have the most at stake. I think the National Party and rural Liberals are just utterly out of touch both the opportunities of action on climate change and the challenges of living climate change. It is not a projection or a forecast it is today's reality. Now –

SALLY SARA: [Interrupts] Does the Government need to do a better job at explaining some of that in rural and regional areas where people's land may be used for these projects and there is concern?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well Sally, I'm making the point that I think it's simplistic to say people in the cities support climate action and people in rural and regional Australia don't. It's not true. There's even a poll I've seen this morning from the Hunter region showing strong support for renewable energy. Now, of course, we always have more to do on strong community consultation, community benefit, governments, including ours, the private sector, the renewable energy investors all need to constantly be improving how we do that. We've made big changes there. There's more to do. But I reject utterly this simplistic notion that somehow people in regional Australia and rural Australia engage in climate denial or don't support climate action. Sally, show me the evidence for that. It does not exist because it isn't true.

SALLY SARA: I'm talking about concerns from some people in affected areas. You don't think that's true?

CHRIS BOWEN: I didn't say that, Sally. Please don't put words in my mouth. I've just said –

SALLY SARA: [Talks over] Likewise.

CHRIS BOWEN: – there's always work to do on community consultation and stronger benefits. I've met, you know, with farmers in recent weeks about that, of course, and I've always acknowledged that. And, you know, I appointed the former chief executive, you know, the then current chief executive of the National Farmers' Federation to be the Energy Infrastructure Commissioner. He has done a really good job in the last year or so that he's been in the job of him working with communities. And, you know, I strongly support him in that work. But I reject this argument that somehow people in rural Australia don't support this.

As I said, I attended the Farmers for Climate Action conference. I didn't see any members of the National Party there. I got emails afterwards from farmers saying, you know, thank goodness someone's standing up for farmers who believe in climate action. Thank you. Nobody from the National Party does that. It's a complicated area, of course, but I want to caution against, Sally, sweeping generalisations that somehow people in rural Australia don't support climate action. It's not true. No evidence for it.

SALLY SARA: You're listening to Radio National Breakfast. My guest is the Minister for Climate Change and Energy. Just briefly, you're set to travel to Brazil to attend the COP climate conference. Is there any further progress in Australia's bid to host COP31 next year with this competing bid from Turkiye still in play?

CHRIS BOWEN: Look, the remains that Australia has overwhelming support from the world and from our group. That's a good thing. That's about confidence in Australia's climate transition. But the COP rules are not as I would have designed them in a perfect world where you must get agreement from the country that also has bid. So, in effect, it's got to be unanimous, including the country that that hasn't got the support of the rest of the world, and that, in this case, is Turkiye. So, in that regard, if you like, a constituency of one.

But, you know, I've been talking to my ministerial counterpart. The Prime Minister's been in communication with his counterpart, the President, the Foreign Minister, likewise. We'll continue to work on that. It is important for Australia's geopolitical and strategic best interests. It's important for our economic future. It's the world's largest trade fair. I don't know what the result will be, Sally, but I do know that we continue to work on it.

SALLY SARA: Chris Bowen, thank you for your time this morning.

CHRIS BOWEN: Always a pleasure.

SALLY SARA: Chris Bowen, the Minister for Climate Change and Energy, speaking to me there.