Interview with Samantha Armytage and Dan Anstey, Today Show, Nine

SAMANTHA ARMYTAGE: Welcome back. Well, energy is shaping up to be a major election fight and this morning the government is being accused of running a scare campaign against nuclear power.

DAN ANSTEY: Labor is sharing a new video that claims nuclear power is linked to health issues, including cancers, heart attacks and strokes. Let's have a look.

DR MARGARET BEAVIS: There are significantly increased rates of cancer, heart attacks and strokes amongst the workforce in the nuclear industries. This research has looked at over 300,000 workers over 30 years and it's very clear that working with radiation has no safe, lower limit energy.

DAN ANSTEY: Good morning. Allegations you're resorting to scare tactics. Is that the case?

CHRIS BOWEN: No, we're happy to engage in a debate, and the Liberal Party wanted a debate on nuclear, and we're engaging in it. The thing about nuclear and safety is the way you make nuclear safer is by spending hundreds of millions of dollars on each reactor to make it safer. And that's money that Peter Dutton wants to spend, taxpayers money. He's released costings last week which are the worst, most flawed costings we've seen from an opposition in 40 years. He's been lying about them since. So, nuclear is very slow to build. It can't fix our energy needs in the immediate future. It's very, very expensive. And one of the reasons it's expensive is to manage the risks. You need to spend hundreds of millions of dollars and that's hundreds of millions of dollars of taxpayers money.

SAMANTHA ARMYTAGE: Minister, separate studies to the one referenced in this video have found no evidence of childhood leukaemia linked to nuclear power plants. Nuclear is used throughout Europe, throughout the US, throughout China to power their countries. Do you back the information in this video as the truth, or is this fake news?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, it's part of the debate, as I said, Sam. And look, some countries use nuclear. In fact, around the world, 27, the amount of renewable investment is 27 times bigger than the amount of nuclear investment. We're adding more renewables around the world every fortnight than get added every year. The world is moving to renewables and in Australia's case, we have the best renewable resources in the world. We're building those. We're building the storage and transmission and the gas peaking and firming which goes with it. All of which means nuclear is not a choice Australia needs to make because it is very, very expensive. Very, very slow. It is not the right answer for Australia. We need an Australian energy system designed by Australian experts for Australian circumstances. And no expert, credible expert, thinks that Peter Dutton's plan is part of that future.

DAN ANSTEY: Look, we're going to have to pivot away from coal and gas at some time, put the climate change argument to the side. Eventually we will run out of them and we need some sort of baseline power, green energy, which a lot of people are for, can't provide that. What's that baseline power going to be if it's not going to be coal, gas? And if we're ruling out nuclear, where's it going to come from?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, what we're going to have is a system which is predominantly renewables, and that's where the world is going. It's where Australia can go with the best renewable resources in the world. But you're. You're right. I partly agree with you. We also need other things. We need the storage. You know, the sun doesn't always shine and the wind doesn't always blow. That's true. But the rain doesn't always fall either. We drink water every day because we store it, so that can be batteries and we're building a lot of those. It can be pumped hydro. Some of those are being built. And also calling on gas when you need it, and that's an important part of the mix. The beauty of gas, as opposed to coal and nuclear, is you can turn it on and off and that's pretty useful for a renewable system. That's part of our plan to have gas sitting there like an insurance policy. You hope you don't need it very often, but when you do need it, you need it, and that's part of our very balanced approach.

SAMANTHA ARMYTAGE: Minister, the Opposition has called this video that's come out overnight codswallop. What do you say to that?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, I'll tell you. Well, I'll tell you what's codswallop is these costings they released last week. I mean, Peter Dutton's been out there over recent days saying this shows a 44% reduction in energy prices. Well, I think he might be on your show later. I mean, you can ask him. Where does it say that? I'll tell you on page 18. It specifically says nothing about prices. They can't model prices. So, one, this modelling is flawed. Two, Peter Dutton is lying about it. So, if he wants to have a discussion about codswallop, bring it on, because his entire energy plan is complete codswallop.

SAMANTHA ARMYTAGE: All right, Minister, we have to leave it there. There's a lot of codswallop around. There'll be more in the lead-up to the election, I bet.

CHRIS BOWEN: Codswallop strong morning.  All the best for Christmas, guys, as well.

SAMANTHA ARMYTAGE: We have to go. Thanks for your time.