Interview with Sarah Ferguson, ABC 7.30

SALLY FERGUSON: Chris Bowen, welcome to the programme.

CHRIS BOWEN: Thank you, Sarah.

SALLY FERGUSON: Adam Bandt says that this is just round one. The battle moves now to the Senate, where the Greens and David Pocock want to put a climate trigger into environmental regulations to assess the impacts on the climate of new projects. What's wrong with that idea?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, firstly, Sarah, let's just recognise that Parliament today, the House of Representatives, passed our climate bill, 89 votes to 55. That's a significant step forward for the country, frankly, after ten years of delay, dysfunction and denial. In relation to the Greens and the crossbench, the government has worked cooperatively across the Parliament to get this done. We've respected and maintained every single thing we went to the election with, everything we sought a mandate for. But where there were sensible suggestions, we took them on board. Now, in relation to other things that the Greens are going to pursue, they obviously will continue to pursue their policies, the government will continue to implement ours, and that's what should happen. That's how the Parliament works and where we can come together across the Parliament on areas of agreement, even with the Liberal Party, should they choose it to be constructive, we will.

SALLY FERGUSON: Thank you very much indeed for that explanation of the day, but what's wrong with the idea of putting a climate trigger into regulations? It sounds like a straightforward honestly, I think the man in the street would call that a ‘no brainer’.

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, in relation to the so-called climate trigger, my colleague, Minister Plibersek, is working through the government's response to the Samuel Review of the Environmental Protection and Biodiversity Act and she will, of course, respond in due course to all the recommendations there. He's made recommendations about how climate is handled and other improvements to the EPBC Act. That's as it should be. She has just today exercised a very significant decision which shows her approach to these matters. And in relation to those considerations, they are separate, quite separate, to any discussions or negotiations we've had across the Parliament on the climate change bill.

SALLY FERGUSON: All right, just on today's matter, which is Tanya Plibersek refusing to allow a coal project to go ahead on the Barrier Reef, is that the shape of things to come under your government?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, this is a Minister doing their job. This is a Minister weighing up all the evidence before her, deciding that this proposal, which is ten kilometres from the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park, is not appropriate. That is her job to do. And she has made a good decision based on all the power she has available to her.

SALLY FERGUSON: So, if the decision is that that's going to have a too dramatic effect on the Barrier Reef, isn't that a justification with regards to other coal projects which are going to have broad, well understood impacts on the climate?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, the way the Act works is each decision is taken on its merits, on a case-by-case basis. In fact, the Minister has to be very careful in how they proceed. Tanya has to be very careful in not prejudging decisions because then they can be subject to judicial review. She and any Environment Minister of the day has to work through the issues very carefully, weigh up all the evidence before them on a case by case basis, and exercise those powers appropriately. That's exactly what she's done today, and that's exactly what she'll continue to do on all the big projects that come before her.

SALLY FERGUSON: All right, let's talk about where Adam Bandt says his next priority is, which is a Senate inquiry. And let's help the audience understand, because some of this can get a bit drowned in language, but he says that in that Senate inquiry, they're going to look at, I think it's 114 new coal and gas projects. He says that just one of them; the Beetaloo Basin Project would increase Australia's emissions by up to 13 per cent. How can you still achieve your targets if these projects go ahead?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, look, with all due respect, Adam's got that rhetorical position, which I understand. Now, as I've said before, there is…

SALLY FERGUSON: Why is that a rhetorical position when he's talking about the emissions of a coal project?

CHRIS BOWEN: Sarah, if I could answer the question you just asked me with respect, please. He's got that rhetorical position that there's some list of 114 projects waiting for approval. That's just not right. I understand that that's the position he puts, but it's not supported by facts and evidence. Just because a company somewhere has a project which they say they might one day come forward with, they've got to get approval of their board, they've got to get financing, then they've got to go through all the environmental approvals at both the state and federal level. So there's no list of 114 projects that are waiting and ready to go as Adam suggests. It's just not right.

SALLY FERGUSON: Yes, but there are coal projects coming down the line, you wouldn't disagree with that? There are plans to expand coal and gas projects, significant coal and gas projects in Australia. So just to come back to my question, how can you achieve your targets, which is what you began doing today with the passing of today's legislation, How can you achieve your targets if those projects go ahead?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, by implementing our policies that we sought a mandate for, whether it is reforming the safeguards mechanism which covers the 215 biggest emitters across the country to put them on a trajectory to net zero, and that applies to the 215 biggest emitters and to any new projects which might seek to enter that scheme. They get covered as well under the same process. Whether it's rewiring the nation. Our plan to build transmission lines. To get renewable energy from where it's generated to where it's consumed. Whether it's our electric car strategy. Which we've already started to implement with our electric vehicle tax cut, which is passed the House of Representatives. Whether it's our solar banks policy to open up the opportunities of solar energy to people who can't afford solar panels or can’t have them because they're renters or whatever the case may be. We went to the election with a suite of policies. We’re implementing those policies. We've got a mandate from the House of Representatives today, 89 votes to 55, to get on with the job, to send the message to renewable energy investors around the world that we are open for business as a renewable energy powerhouse. That's why that bill was important. It's important it passes through the Senate, which it will. We're getting on with that, Sarah. Now, other parties will have different policies and approaches we’re the government elected with a mandate and we're getting on and implementing that mandate.

SALLY FERGUSON: Isn't it obvious that for the Prime Minister and the Finance Ministers too, dealing with a massive debt crisis, that they've been very clear about, that they will be desperate to keep the revenue that will flow from these new projects?

CHRIS BOWEN: No, that's not right, Sarah. I reject that proposition you just put. Governments will consider any particular projects based on all the criteria before them, all the necessary environmental approvals, as Minister Plibersek has done very proficiently today. That will continue. I can't let that statement that you just made go uncorrected because it is not true or fair.

SALLY FERGUSON: Let me ask you this question. Let's just broaden it a little bit. You say that climate change, you personally have said that climate change is an existential threat. We know that it doesn't stop at Australia's borders. So is your responsibility as Climate Change Minister only to Australia or to the world as well?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well. My responsibility as Climate Change Minister is to set Australia's policies and then to engage with my international colleagues to work around the world. As we've done. As I've done with John Kerry. As I've done with Jennifer Granholm. As I've done with the Quad Energy Ministers. As I've done with Alok Sharma. I’ve engaged and worked closely with all of them in the first few weeks of this government. But our responsibility is to implement policies to reduce Australia's emissions, that's important, and to work cooperatively with our colleagues around the world, whether it be through the COP, which we are doing, or through other forums. That's exactly what we'll do. Australia's back, Sarah. Australia's back as a key international partner, engaging in the task of reducing emissions and maximising the economic opportunities for Australia as we do so.

SALLY FERGUSON: Will Australia still be back, as you say, at all, out of the ‘naughty corner’, which is the phrase the Prime Minister uses? Will you still be back for the rest of the world if you keep expanding coal and gas and adding to the emissions in the world?

CHRIS BOWEN: Again, Sarah, I reject the premise of your question. I mean, we've taken our emissions reduction target to 2030, which brings us back to the pack. It's comparable to countries that have quite similar economies to us we've rejected the idea of new coal-fired power stations, for example, which the previous government was going down in Collinsville. We're not going to do that, we're going to convert the Kurri Kurri plant to green hydrogen. That's what we're doing. Now, we're getting on with the job and as I said, we're going to reform the safeguards mechanism to reduce the emissions from our 215 biggest committees and implement all the other policies that I've spoken about, and that's just some of them, to reduce emissions, that's our job. A responsible government working with people of good faith to reduce emissions and to maximise the economic opportunities for our country as we do so, because we believe the world's climate emergency is a jobs opportunity for Australia. We can be a renewable energy powerhouse. We'll take our energy system to 82 per cent renewable by 2030. That's our policy and we're getting on with that job.

SALLY FERGUSON: Does that mean that you feel you have no responsibility for the burning of fossil fuels exported from Australia?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, Sarah, with respect, that's not an appropriate way to frame it. It means that Australia's responsibility is to reduce our emissions and to work with international partners to ensure the international framework is fit for purpose to reduce emissions as well. Now, there are international accounting rules about where emissions get counted. They apply around the world. It's like saying we don't need to move to electric vehicles in Australia because they're made in Japan and the United States, so it's not our responsibility even if we drive them. That's not our approach. Our approach is to reduce our own emissions and to work with colleagues around the world as well.

SALLY FERGUSON: Thank you very much indeed for joining us this evening.

CHRIS BOWEN: My great pleasure, Sarah. Thank you.