Interview with Sarah Ferguson, ABC 730

SARAH FERGUSON: Chris Bowen, welcome to the program.

CHRIS BOWEN: Great to join you, Sarah.

SARAH FERGUSON: There have been attempts, as I understand it, to avoid reconfirming a commitment to keeping the globe to 1.5 degrees of warming, or as close to that as possible. Who's behind the push to weaken that commitment? And can the international community hold firm?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, yes, Sarah. And a lot of countries, including Australia, are leading the fight to keep the commitments we made in Glasgow, as a planet, to hold the world as close as possible to 1.5 degrees, because every inch over that makes a huge difference to the health of individuals, the health of countries and the health of the planet. And that was a big step forward in Glasgow. And while I understand that people see each COP as a step forward, we've also got to protect what has been agreed before. So Australia has been working hard with like-minded countries, to affirm very, very strongly and clearly that the commitments that were made in Glasgow must be adhered to here in Egypt. And those negotiations, of course, ongoing. But the big difference, people tell me, between this COP and the last and the previous COPs is that Australia and Brazil, the two big countries under new management, are making a much more constructive, positive approach and that's making a difference in the negotiations. But of course, these discussions are going through the night and they'll continue to go through the night, as is quite often the case at conferences like this, until we get a result.

SARAH FERGUSON: And who are those countries who are backsliding? And do they include China, who, as we know, are increasing their coal output by a very large degree?

CHRIS BOWEN: China is also increasing their renewable energy output at a massive degree as well. Of course, we want to see every country step up and improve their commitments, their nationally determined contributions. We argue that, that emitters past, present and future, I said that in our national statement, have to make a big effort. Of course, I'm not going to go through who's saying what in the negotiations. I'm leading the negotiations on behalf of the COP President on the matter of climate finance. And again, those negotiations go through the night and appropriately, there are strong views expressed and the COP President has asked me and my Indian Minister to manage that process, so that's going on. Meanwhile, we're also engaging in the negotiations about holding the world to 1.5, other issues are being worked through and Australia is working very closely with countries like the United States, New Zealand, Canada, United Kingdom and in our region as well with the Pacific, with Indonesia and my co-chair in India to try and get good outcomes here.

SARAH FERGUSON: You've been asked to wrangle the efforts to secure funding from developed countries to help with what's called climate adaptation, that's helping poorer countries deal with the impact of climate change, as well as transition to a green economy. How far can you get in the days ahead to secure a deal?

CHRIS BOWEN: That work’s going well, but it's hard work and there are strong views being expressed around the world about how this should be done. We are running on a very limited time frame, but as is the nature of these sorts of conferences, you work through the night until the job is done.

SARAH FERGUSON: Scott Morrison took Australia out of the Green Climate Fund. That's the UN fund that the UN body rather than funds adaptation, preferring, as I understand it, to support projects in the region funded through our aid budget. Is it the intention of the Albanese Government to go back into the UN Climate Fund or to do what the Morrison Government did and that's fund Pacific Projects through bilateral arrangements in the Pacific?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, the first point is we are funding Pacific projects. We increased the aid budget to the Pacific by $900 million in the budget. We're implementing the Green Climate Financing Facility for the Pacific we promised at the election, so we're doing that. I am also talking to our Pacific colleagues about the Green Climate Fund, how they feel about what Australia should consider in our decisions. There are strong views in the Pacific from our Pacific Island neighbours that they miss out on the Green Climate Fund and there's strong concerns about the Green Climate Fund, that's being very frank with you. That's a concern. There's also a view that it's sometimes better to be inside the tent trying to change the way the Green Climate Fund works. So we'll weigh that up, I'll talk that through with Penny Wong and Pat Conroy, my Ministerial colleagues, and think about the views of the Pacific, think about how we can best engage in climate financing. Inevitably, we'll be doing things bilaterally and directly in the Pacific. That's inevitably the case but also how we otherwise engage in more multilateral global efforts is something we'll continue to consider.

SARAH FERGUSON: So that just to be clear, no decision has been made on whether Australia will re-join the UN Climate Fund?

CHRIS BOWEN: Correct.

SARAH FERGUSON: One of the most important pushes at this conference has been to establish a fund to help countries deal with the loss and damage of climate events. Is Australia committed to the idea of a new mechanism for that?

CHRIS BOWEN: We're certainly assisting in the negotiations in a very positive and constructive way. I mean, first you have to acknowledge, Sarah, the problem. I mean, natural disasters are up more than 80% since the 1980s and they're terrible for every country developed and undeveloped and less developed, but they have a bigger impact on smaller economies as the size of their economy. That's just common sense. And they need help. And Australia has been helping, of course, with our aid budget. But yes, we are engaging constructively in the discussion about how the world comes together to help less developed economies in particular deal with the loss and damage of climate change. Let me just be very clear. This is not about I know some in Australia will say this is about reparations or compensation. That is not true. And that's a misrepresentation of these conversations. It's about how the developed world works with the developing world, assists them on this task and assists them particularly with the impacts of climate change. To be clear, Sarah, both fast moving, so natural disasters and slow moving, like rising sea levels, we've got to be helping the developing world with both.

SARAH FERGUSON: Now, at the same time, there has been criticism of the pushback again from developed countries. I think the association of Small Island States has said that developed countries are, quote, furiously trying to stall progress. Is it possible that those attempts to stall progress will succeed? There's only a few days left.

CHRIS BOWEN: I think there'll be progress, Sarah. But obviously, again, we're working through the night, and you never call this over until it's over in a consensus based system where you need broad agreement. But look, this is the first time loss and damage has been put on the agenda in a meaningful way. Australia supported it being put on the agenda. So did the United States and other countries. That's a big step forward. It's not the end of the conversation, but it's the start of the conversation. Also, there's an acknowledgement that the developed world does need to work with the developing world on the impacts of loss and damage. On small island states in particular. Of course, there's going to be different views about how to do that. Again, I see my role as talking to the Pacific Islands about how they see it. They strongly, of course, support action on loss and damage. To be clear, they also want to ensure the Pacific has the chance to make its case. So we respect that and work with that.

SARAH FERGUSON: Just to go back to that very important position that you've been given, along with your Indian colleague, to get an agreement on climate adaptation, what would be your benchmark for success from this point?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, I think the benchmark is to have a process that the developing world can see is meaningful, substantive, and working towards progress, working towards a real outcome. It's not going to be the case that we walk away from Sharm el Sheikh with agreement about exactly how much money, et cetera but to have an agreed process to work these issues through for the new green climate financing facilities which will replace the previous commitments.

SARAH FERGUSON: At the same time today, I think Vanuatu has said that for Australia to have a hope of hosting the next climate conference, which I know is something you're committed to, the government must stop subsidising new fossil fuel developments to win their support. Are you concerned that other Pacific countries could join in something that turns into a boycott?

CHRIS BOWEN: No. Let me just make a couple of points, Sarah. I had a great discussion with Ralph, the Vanuatu Minister. He's a good partner of Australia, also with Pacific Islands about our COP bid, this is a Pacific bid, it's a joint bid with the Pacific. It's Australia's bid with the Pacific. Not just Australia's bid. We want the Pacific to have a voice and there's no better way than hosting a conference like this for the Pacific to put their case before the world, the Pacific has been very, very strong in its support. I've also been very grateful for the support we receive from other countries. A lot of support for our bid. I'll leave countries to make their own announcements. But let's just say that there's been strong support expressed to Australia by my counterparts for our bid for 2026 to host the COP. It'd be a great opportunity for Australia to offer our services as a renewable energy powerhouse. It's the world's largest trade show, so it creates a lot of jobs. It's also an opportunity for Australia as the COP president if we win the bid to help steer the discussions, take to the next level, the constructive role we've already played. Of course, Vanuatu has strong views and we had a good discussion about Australia's approach and I think certainly a positive and constructive approach between Australia and Vanuatu.

SARAH FERGUSON: Chris Bowen, you've got a very, very busy couple of days or few days ahead of you. Thank you very much indeed for joining us.