Interview with Sarah Ferguson, ABC 7.30

SARAH FERGUSON, HOST: Chris Bowen is the Minister for Climate Change and Energy. Chris Bowen, welcome to the program.

CHRIS BOWEN: I appreciate the opportunity for a chat, Sarah.

HOST: Now, do what's smart. Go for what's smart by going big. Is the UN representative there pushing Australia for a higher emissions target than the range that was proposed by the Climate Authority, which was 65 to 75%? Is he pushing you to go even higher?

BOWEN: So, Sarah, Simon Stiell, the Executive Secretary, is a very welcome guest in Australia, of course, and he is visiting every G20 country, making the case that good climate policy is good economics, that a good target encourages investment and jobs, and we agree with that. So, that is the case that he is making and it's a case that some others in the Australian political debate would do well to listen to. Of course, in our case, we have a very rigorous process, world's best practice for setting a climate target with advice, independent advice from the Climate Change Authority to come to the Government. Full consideration of economic impacts, the science, all the evidence before us, which I then consider and take through the Cabinet and is in a very transparent way. So, we are well down the process, but I haven't received that advice yet. But we agree a good strong target is good economic policy, but it's also got to be achievable. It's got to be a target which we can set out and achieve. Anybody can set a high target with no plan to get there. That's not the approach our government has taken. It's not the approach we'll take in the future.

HOST: He, of course, said that it's Australia's moment. Is he asking you to go as high as 80%, for example?

BOWEN: Well, he hasn't put a figure on it, as you've seen in the speech he just made.

HOST: But has he, behind closed doors?

BOWEN: And again, we haven't received advice on our target. And Simon has made the same case privately as he's made publicly, that a good target and good climate policy is good economics policy. He's made the case for Australia that it's good national security policy in our region. We've made that case ourselves, and made that point ourselves in the Pacific on a very regular basis. So, there's a strong degree of alignment there in terms of objective. But we'll be setting our target in terms of our national interest, what's good for Australia, what comes out of the modelling as the right balance for us, of course, also as the Climate Change Act demands, which we put into place consideration of the science and all the evidence before us.

HOST: Alright, let's talk about what you're announcing, which is more government support for clean energy projects. How much will that additional investment- how close will that bring you, do you say, to the target of 82% renewables generation by 2030?

BOWEN: I believe that we are going well with that target. I'm far from complacent. There's a lot more to do. But the announcement we're making today about more gigawatts of renewable energy is building on strength. 4.4 gigawatts of new renewable energy connected, not investment decisions, actually up and running, fully operational in the last financial year. That's a lot. And just in the last four weeks, 16,304 households have taken advantage of our cheaper battery policy, resulting in around 280 megawatt hours of new storage. That's a huge contribution. That's bigger than two Hornsdale big batteries, for example, just in the last four weeks under our policy settings. But we're far from complacent. We're going to have to keep on the job, as we have been over the last three years, to make sure that we do meet that target. That's better for emissions, obviously, but it's also much better for reliability and better for energy bills.

HOST: I want to talk to you about how realistic that target is. Now, just to quote some other people, the Climate Change Authority last year, consultants Wood McKenzie and Ross Garnaut today, that's just choosing three authorities in this area, they all say we won't reach the 2030 target. Why do you continue to insist that we will when so many experts in this area say we won't?

BOWEN: Let me push back a little bit on the premise of the question there. The Climate Change Authority said we needed a policy mechanism and we announced the Capacity Investment Scheme, for example. Ross Garnaut is a long and strong supporter of a carbon tax. We don't agree with that. And there are countries with a carbon price that aren't doing as well as we are on renewable energy. Let me make that respectful point to Ross. So, while I have a lot of respect for him, I fundamentally disagree on that point.

HOST: But I think the point about Ross Gaurnaut is he says, and I quote him, we're on a path to comprehensive failure. He may think that the diagnosis is different.

BOWEN: He has a different view about carbon taxes to me and the government. He's never thought- he's always thought that that was the right policy response. That's not our view. It hasn't been and won't be. But what you asked me, Sarah, why do I think we're dealing with strength? And again, I underline no complacency. We have to continue the effort, including on environmental approvals, working with the states, making sure that we're all aligned and that's an ongoing process and task. But why do I, why do I point to the strength again? Just in the last financial year, 4.4 gigawatts connected and a massive 15.7 gigawatts beginning the process, getting connection approval. That means they're not built yet, but they are now approved to proceed. That's a massive pipeline of investment that is coming. I've announced the expansion in the capacity investment scheme today because again, we're dealing with strength. Every auction has been massively oversubscribed. We're not dealing with weakness. We're dealing with such a strong pipeline and an analysis of that pipeline to say these are good projects that, that stack up and can be built with the right policy environment. So, we are providing the right policy environment.

HOST: Do you have a Plan B?

BOWEN: Well, it's important that we achieve this, Sarah, as I said, not just for emissions reduction, as vital as that obviously is. But let me just make the point about reliability. I mean the biggest threat to reliability in our electricity system today is coal fired power. Today there are, as we speak today, there are three separate coal fired power stations out, not working - not planned outage - just broken down. This is a daily occurrence and that will happen more and more as they get older. This is not some sort of woke agenda as the Opposition would have you believe, and the Opposition is acting unbelievably recklessly here. This is vital investment for energy reliability for the future. Again, that renewable energy backed by storage as we're doing with the big batteries and the so far, four weeks into the programme, 16,304 home batteries all this is a very important investment in a more reliable energy grid as well as a much lower emissions one.

HOST: I want to just move on to a question about Gaza before I lose you, Chris Bowen. There are reports this evening that the British Prime Minister Keir Starmer has convened an emergency cabinet to discuss his plan for peace in Gaza, but also for aid, further aid to get to Gaza. Would Australia as a middle power join a joint effort to ensure more aid gets into to Gaza, also ensuring that the Israelis are forced to open ports and borders to make that happen?

BOWEN: Well, I think the best thing I can do, Sarah, is very warmly and strongly and positively point you to the Prime Minister's comments. One, his abhorrence at what has been happening in Gaza in recent times, his condemnation of that action and his statements about Australia's role in a pathway going forward, a sensible pathway for Australia to work towards the recognition of Palestine at the right time. But also his abhorrence at the breaches of international law. That's a very strong statement. And to your question directly, he has made clear he has been in contact with his counterparts as the Foreign Minister has been in contact with hers. And there is a high degree of coordination between Australia and like minded countries or middle powers, as you correctly put it. There is a very high degree of coordination there and you should expect that to continue. Now I'm not going to comment on the details what Keir Starmer may or may not be doing because that's a matter for the United Kingdom. Obviously we would respond in due course. But I will point to the Prime Minister's very, very strong comments which I wholeheartedly endorse obviously and his statements about the pathway going forward.

HOST: Chris Bowen, thank you very much indeed.

BOWEN: Great pleasure, Sarah.