Interview with Tom Connell, Sky News

TOM CONNELL, HOST: The Energy and Climate Minister Chris Bowen is with me now live in the studio. Thanks for your time. So the crossbench has been calling for amendments. My understanding is David Pocock, saying he got four out of seven of his 
concessions, is that accurate and what are they? 

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, there's been good discussions with Senator Pocock and I thank him for them. Just as in the House of Representatives, we said we would act constructively with the crossbench and accept good ideas in keeping with our agenda. The same with David, the same with Senator Pocock. So he's suggesting things like a little bit more particularity about what's in my annual report to Parliament about climate risks, that would be my intention anyway. So we're more than happy to incorporate that into the Bill. Some rules about, some tighter rules about Climate Change Authority advice and when it should be tabled etc. Again, that’s what we would intend to do, but happy to enshrine it in legislation going forward. And those sorts of things. So he's had a range of constructive suggestions, we don't agree about everything, they'll be a couple of things that he moves that we won't support. But we are more than happy to support his very constructive suggestions.

TOM CONNELL, HOST: So in terms of, let's go through what you won't support, the EPBC change that essentially means no new coal or gas?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, obviously, we have a very clear position on those things about proper processes, reform of EPBC and the new EPA. 

TOM CONNELL, HOST: That’s happening, there’s a review.

CHRIS BOWEN: Correct.

TOM CONNELL, HOST: But this sort of strong line, make it all but impossible for new 
coal or gas.

CHRIS BOWEN: Again, we have our own position of reform of the EPBC Act as the Government and Minister Plibersek will be working that through. So we won't be supporting any amendments of that nature.
 
TOM CONNELL, HOST: And what else are you not supporting? 

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, it depends what he moves, really. But what I have agreed with David is what we will support, those sensible amendments that he would move relating to Climate Change Authority advice, relating to statements of risk in my statement to Parliament, those sorts of things. There's a number of them, but very happy to support them. If he moves them, we will support them, then, of course, how other parties vote is up to them.

TOM CONNELL, HOST: And anything else we should know about? There was the native forest wood waste and whether or not it should be defined as renewable energy. So burning this, it's renewable technically, it's not traditional renewable that we think of perhaps.

CHRIS BOWEN: Yeah, this has been an issue which has come up, it was raised in the House of Representatives by the Greens as well. And it's been raised by Senator Pocock. I think there are legitimate issues to be concerned about here. But what I don't want to do is, you know, have an ad hoc decision, the way we do business in the Albanese Government is to do things carefully and with consultation, so I'll be releasing a short consultation paper about this. To be fair, the forest industry by and large looks for higher value return elsewhere than burning it for energy. But I do think there are legitimate issues about the carbon impacts. So I want to have a discussion paper, a brief process, let people have their say, and then I will make a decision after that.

TOM CONNELL, HOST: So that, presumably that would mean it's not going to be part of this Bill this week. 

CHRIS BOWEN: No.

TOM CONNELL, HOST: So you'll say no to a change but we’ll look at it.

CHRIS BOWEN: We’ll have a process. It was raised, the Senate inquiry into our Bill recommended that the government consider it. I'm accepting that recommendation that we consider these options. But as I said, the way we do business is we work through issues through carefully. I want people to have their say, there are some complicating factors. You know, there are some technical methods which need to be worked through. And the best way of doing that is a sensible, calm consultation process.

TOM CONNELL, HOST: Anything else significant we need to know about, in terms of these changes?

CHRIS BOWEN: What we need to know, Tom, is Australia will have a Climate Change Act for the first time in more than a decade. And that's a very good thing for our country, because it sends a signal to investors around the world and in Australia. It's one climate law. It's the Climate Change Act. It's enshrined in legislation, the government is getting on with the job and we're open for business for investments in renewable energy in transmission and storage.

TOM CONNELL, HOST: The Climate Change Authority, and one of the changes, David Pocock said, ‘let's have transparency around the advice they give’. So are they going to be free to give advice whether we should go harder on reducing admissions, for example. What would that decision be based on?

CHRIS BOWEN: They're free to give any advice – the Climate Change Authority. That's their job, they’re independent. Now, they will have to have regard to our commitments under the Paris accord, for example, in the original bill, that's not an amendment. 

TOM CONNELL, HOST: That's for the floor. 

CHRIS BOWEN: Correct.

TOM CONNELL, HOST: If they want to give advice that says, we think you need to go to 55%?

CHRIS BOWEN: That’ll be next task to advise in our future targets. So 2035, etc. The 2030 target, the Government has announced and locked in. 

TOM CONNELL, HOST: They won't be looking at the 2030 target? 

CHRIS BOWEN: They'll be advising the government on a few things. They'll be advising government about our climate change statement to Parliament, how are we going, what we need to do to achieve those targets, they'll then be advising us on future targets, future matters going forward and as is appropriate. The Climate Change Authority, I want to put the authority back into it, give them real independence to do their job. The Bill requires quite a bit of transparency about that process. There’s been some amendments moved in the House and now in the Senate to improve that. More than happy to embrace that. It's been a very good process.

TOM CONNELL, HOST: So when they're coming up with 2035, though, are they just saying what does the world need to do to keep it to say two degrees or one and a half degrees?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well they have to have regard to our commitments under Paris. Yes, they have to have regard to that. 

TOM CONNELL, HOST: How do they factor it in? Australia is a small part of the world.

CHRIS BOWEN: What they factor in is our circumstances, our economy. They factor all the economic implications not just cost, Tom, benefits as well. You factor all that in, ultimately, of course, to be very clear, the government makes decisions. 

TOM CONNELL, HOST: They’ll do it, it’ll be public. They’ll say here’s why it should be 65%?

CHRIS BOWEN: I'm not going to start naming numbers. They're going to make recommendations to government, I'll make recommendations to cabinet. Cabinet will consider the matter. It will all be transparent, we'll be releasing their advice, what our decision is etc. A much better process than we've had over the last 10 years of Scott Morrison going off to Glasgow with a pamphlet, didn't even bother to check with the Climate Change Authority when he took his pamphlet to the last COP. We will be having best practice governance in relation to the process for setting future targets.

TOM CONNELL, HOST: One of your pre-election commitments, and a policy document is actually still online now today was, and this is a direct quote, Labor will cut power bills by $275 a year by 2025, compared to today. Is that still going to happen?

CHRIS BOWEN: We are totally committed to getting more renewable energy into the system to reduce power prices because unlike the Liberal Party, which thinks nuclear is the answer, that's the most expensive form of energy. We know, the science tells us, renewable energy is the answer. It is the cheapest form of energy. This is even more important given what we now know that Angus Taylor lied to the Australian people, changed the law, signed a regulation to hide a 19% increase in power prices pre-election. Just shameful conduct, a scandal. That makes, the fact that we inherited this mess, even more important that we get to 82% renewables. We stand by the modelling that we released pre-election which informed that statement $275 by 2025. We stand by that, we stand by our commitment. 

TOM CONNELL, HOST: Just on that then. So what does that now mean? Are you saying that the latest power prices that were released, which were a hell of a lot higher than pre-election, that's your benchmark? [indistinct]

CHRIS BOWEN: Look, I'm saying it's even more important to get more renewables into the system, given the mess we've inherited, given the dishonesty of Angus Taylor. He's not fit to be a P&C Treasurer, let alone Treasurer of Australia. I probably should apologise to P&C Treasurers for acquainting them with Angus Taylor, because it's frankly a scandal what he did. He lied to the Australian people pre-election. He's not fit to hold office. His negligence, I mean it’s a result of 10 years of negligence. We had four gigawatts of power come out of the system, one gigawatt come on. That leads to the energy crisis we recently had, it leads to higher power prices. So it's more important than ever, we get more renewables into the system, more transmission and more storage. It's good for the environment and it's good for power bills as well.

TOM CONNELL, HOST: Just what this power bill promise is now? You say you standby the modelling. 

CHRIS BOWEN: We standby the modelling. 

TOM CONNELL, HOST: That was a reduction, if you look at what Reputex pulled out, I mean, there's not a lot of detail and methodology. What they say is here is the reduction in wholesale.

CHRIS BOWEN: I'll tell you this, I'll tell you this by 2025. The government, the former government, the Liberal Party, say where’s the power price reduction? They don't mention the 2025 bit because of course, we have to have the chance. 

TOM CONNELL, HOST: I am mentioning it.

CHRIS BOWEN: You are, I'm respecting your position. I'm not respecting the Liberal party's approach. They never mention that part. You know, people will judge us on performance. What we won't do, what I won't do is change the law and sign regulations to try and hide power price increases before an election. That's Angus Taylor strict, not mine.

TOM CONNELL, HOST: The $275 that will be down by 2025, what’s the benchmark? 

CHRIS BOWEN: As was the election commitment, as was the modelling based. I accept that power prices have gone up. Angus Taylor lied about it. I accept that. But we stand by the modelling.

TOM CONNELL, HOST: So your benchmark is still the pre-election price? 

CHRIS BOWEN: Look, we're standing by the modelling Tom. 

TOM CONNELL, HOST: I know, but that quote says compared to today. 

CHRIS BOWEN: I’m just pointing out that of course, it's gotten harder, yes, because of Angus Taylor's dishonesty, but the commitment is even more important. 

TOM CONNELL, HOST: So you'll still get there? Just to clarify, the reason I ask this because down the track, today might be ‘well the true price that day when we released this’. Well we didn't realise Angus Taylor was hiding it. You're still saying?

CHRIS BOWEN: I’m standing by the modelling Tom. But I'm saying, people can judge us on our performance. And we won't be hiding the real power prices like Angus Taylor did. 

TOM CONNELL, HOST: We can pull up the power price, the pre-election power price. 

CHRIS BOWEN: I'm sure you will do that, Tom. 

TOM CONNELL, HOST: But that’s what I’m asking, that's the benchmark here. 

CHRIS BOWEN: And I'm sure people will judge us on our performance. And they will judge us on the comparison with the previous government, which hid power price rises from them before the election. 

TOM CONNELL, HOST: But that benchmark would be the pre-election or post-election?

CHRIS BOWEN: We're standing by the modelling. The modelling was done pre-election, I stand by the modelling.

TOM CONNELL, HOST: Okay. 

CHRIS BOWEN: But I do reserve the right and will point out Angus Taylor was fundamentally dishonest, not only with us, but with all Australian voters pre-election about power prices, and it makes this task of ours even more important.

TOM CONNELL, HOST: But you’ll still get there?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well we're getting on with the job, Tom. I mean, we are going at pace in our first 100 days, but we will be judged ultimately not in our first 100 days we'll be judged on performance over the term.

TOM CONNELL, HOST: Okay, Paul Broad, was he sacked or did he resign?

CHRIS BOWEN: He resigned and I thank him for his service to Snowy Hydro. He resigned. And I worked closely with my fellow shareholder Minister Katy Gallagher on dealing with a whole range of the issues that the previous government left us in relation to Snowy Hydro, including the fact that the previous government’s signature commitment Snowy 2.0 is running 18 months late. Another thing they weren't honest about preelection.

TOM CONNELL, HOST: Is it $2.2 billion over? 

CHRIS BOWEN: There's a claim against Snowy Hydro. I'm working very closely with my fellow shareholder Minister Katy Gallagher to reduce and minimise and with the Snowy Board. 

TOM CONNELL, HOST: So you don't know?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well there's been a claim, which hasn't been worked through. That's not a matter of knowing or not knowing it hasn't been finalised. There's been a claim. I am concerned about the budget for Snowy 2.0. I am. I agree with that point. It is concerning. But we are not about to agree to a 2 billion claim just like that, we will work to minimise the cost blowout. 

TOM CONNELL, HOST: That’s been put out there and yeah, okay. So just finally on this, was there a disagreement, though, between you or your government and Paul Broad over Kurri Kurri and the energy mix?

CHRIS BOWEN: In relation to Snowy Hydro, there are a whole range of issues we're working through. The delay. 

TOM CONNELL, HOST: I’m just asking specifically about Kurri Kurri.

CHRIS BOWEN: And I’ll get to that. The 18 month delay in Snowy 2.0, the significant issues around the budget. In relation to Kurri Kurri, the Snowy Hydro business case released pre-election says explicitly, and it's still on the website, 30% green hydrogen is possible with minimal investment.

TOM CONNELL, HOST: From day one? 

CHRIS BOWEN: That's what the Snowy Hydro business case said. 

TOM CONNELL, HOST: Paul Broad says that can't happen. Was there a disagreement? 

CHRIS BOWEN: I didn't write the Snowy Hydro business case. But look, I'm not here to prosecute any arguments. We are getting on with the job. Working in whatever way we can. I note that the Chairman of Snowy David Knox has said the new government is working very constructively with him. 

TOM CONNELL, HOST: But not with Paul Broad?

CHRIS BOWEN: And with Snowy and we just need to get on with the job of decarbonising the grid. And that's exactly what I intend to do, and to implement the election commitments to the best of our ability going forward. 

TOM CONNELL, HOST: So was his leaving entirely amicable?

CHRIS BOWEN: He's made public statements. He's resigned. I don't really want to do anything other than wish him the best for his future.

TOM CONNELL, HOST: Minister, we appreciate your time today on a busy day.

CHRIS BOWEN: Always a pleasure, Tom.