Press conference, Berlin, Germany
Minister Stark-Watzinger: Ladies and Gentlemen, dear Minister, Australia and Germany have a lot in common, even though we are separated by more than 14000 kilometres. We share values, democracy, the rule of law. We share goals and visions. And soon we will be moving even closer together. With a first supply chain for green hydrogen worldwide. We have selected four projects from a joint funding call, which we will present in a moment and these projects, they will massively accelerate the expansion and then also enable this supply chain. Because one thing is clear: we have to and we want to become climate neutral. We have to move away from oil, coal and gas, and the energy carrier of the future is green hydrogen. It is the missing piece of the puzzle in the energy transition, because it stores energy and can also be used where electrification does not work, and it is available when the sun is not shining, and the wind is not blowing. So only with green hydrogen will we achieve our climate targets and retain economic strength at the same time.
I want to make Germany a hydrogen republic, and that's why we want to accelerate the market ramp-up. We don't have enough green hydrogen at the moment, and that's why we have to be open in this market run. We have to move away from pure colour theory. It's a question of how much Co 2 is in the hydrogen, and that's why we also have to enable hydrogen of other colours to fuel the ramp-up. But it's clear, of course, that our goal remains green hydrogen. We have to think big. And that must also be reflected in the national hydrogen strategy, which we are currently updating. Those who commit themselves unnecessarily too early, to colours or to infrastructures, will lose many opportunities. As a strong industrialized country, we must of course continue to import energy, and Australia is the ideal partner for us.The HySupply feasibility study has shown that. Sun and wind in abundance are ideal conditions, prerequisites for hydrogen production based on renewable energies. In addition, of course, Australia has a long track record of political stability and innovative thinking. Australia also has plenty of experience in exporting energy sources, and in the past it was coal. In the future, it will be green hydrogen. My goal is that the first delivery will actually arrive in Germany by 2030 at the latest. And that's why we started years ago with strong research partners to prepare this hydrogen research and then also market ramp-up and now it's a matter of taking the next step and building up this German-Australian hydrogen supply chain and launching concrete projects. With HyGate, that's the project, that's the tender, which we're now also putting into projects, we've created a joint initiative that starts where there are currently still obstacles.
At the technical implementation in the demonstration of the individual parts of the supply chains that interlock. and I thank Minister Bowen for his visit and thus also the strong commitment of his country. Together we have selected four projects, they are being presented now with different focus areas: Building green hydrogen production capacity in Australia with technology from Siemens Energy, Developing green methanol production using Co 2 from the air, the further development of the efficiency of electrolysers and the establishment of an export terminal for green hydrogen in Australia. I am pleased that we are kicking off today.
Moderator: Thank you very much, Madam Minister, I would like to point out that this press conference in the hall will be partially translated simultaneously. Mrs Nickel is assisting us this morning. However, the transmission will be in the original English. Mr Bowen. You have the floor.
Minister Chris Bowen: Well, thank you very much. It's a great pleasure to be here with you for this very important announcement. This is a big step forward for Germany and for Australia and for the renewable revolution everywhere around the world.
HySupply and Hygate represent a high point for the German-Australian relationship and on that day, before 2030, when the first ship with green hydrogen arrives here in Germany from Australia, I think Minister will be able to look back on this day very fondly and say, this was a key one.
I want to thank Minister Stark-Watzinger for your leadership. This would not been possible without your interest and your leadership and your vision and you're driving of this initiative through the German Government, so thank you, for your friendship of Australia.
And thank you for everything you've done to bring us together today. What we're announcing today is a good step forward. What we're announcing today are our projects which cover a wide range of Australia from South Australia to the industrial area of NSW to the North of Queensland and not just a wide range of geography but a wide range of technology. As the Minister said, solar, methanol and electrolysers, and different technologies because there's not one single pathway to green hydrogen. There's many pathways and we need to walk down all of them to make this a reality.
So, this is real investment from both governments. These are important projects to take our understanding of green hydrogen to the next level. Green hydrogen is not easy. Not easy to make, not easy to export, but we didn't come here, the Minister and I, to do the easy things and we came here to do the hard things and the hard things require cooperation and cooperation between like-minded nations. And the government of Australia and the government of Germany are very very aligned in our ambition; very very aligned in our understanding of the opportunity.
The world faces the climate emergency. At that time, an emergency is also a jobs opportunity. And a jobs opportunity which is maximised by the cooperation between countries like Germany and Australia: Germany, very energy hungry Australia, very very energy rich and key partners.
So, the projects which run as I said across Australia from the Illawarra, in NSW with the development of two different and related projects for the north of Queensland Townsville, which we'll see development of different technologies and very importantly Port Augusta, in South Australia, the vast project which is a very innovative type of solar initiative: concentrated solar and solar methanol are important steps.
We know that for example in the world in which 3% of Australia was covered with solar panels, which was converted to green hydrogen. That 3% would deliver 600 million tonnes of green hydrogen, which is 10 times Germany's need for non-electricity energy. And while Germany and Australia maybe along way apart geographically, we are right next door to each other in terms of ambition, in terms of understanding and in terms of corporation, we are alike exporters.
And I believe as I said, when that ship comes in with the 1st green hydrogen, we will be very pleased with the progress we've made together. So, I'm very pleased to join you here today to watch both Hygate and Hysupply report, which confirms for us, what we already felt, it confirms for Germany and Australian citizens that not only is the export of green hydrogen from Australia to Germany feasible, it is highly desirable. So thank you.
Dr Bruch, Siemens Energy: Good morning, Minister Stark-Watzinger, Minister Bowen, I am pleased to be here as a representative of the industrial companies, and as a resident CEO in the capital, I am particularly pleased.
First of all, my thanks really go to both sides, both ministries for the confidence shown to all industrial companies involved in these projects.
We are in the phase where we are changing the discussion a bit. From sustainability, from energy supply to resilience of energy supply. And we just have to remember hydrogen is not only an element that enables sustainability in many processes that are difficult to decarbonise, but also to create energy security. And we will need new partnerships, other closer partnerships for that. I think that here today is an example of how to get on track. I am particularly pleased that with this technology, because we have been working on hydrogen for many years, I myself have been working on hydrogen for about 25 years now, that we are getting it done, that we are doing something, and I think that is what is special about this project in a very short time. The Hygate project was announced in March 2022, and today we are in the process of continuing the first projects from it at the beginning, and that is what it is all about: doing and not discussing, and that is something very important, where I am very grateful for the trust placed in us by both houses.
And I think I can speak for my colleagues in industry on that, because it's about understanding how we can take technologies that need support today and turn them into commercial business models that create jobs, that create economic growth, that generate profits. And what do we have to do for that, in supply chains, in materials, in improving manufacturing?
We will only be able to understand that in those places if we really implement something. That is part of HyGate, and in this respect we are also, as an energy technology company, I would say, on fire to bring this forward. And as I said, I would like to thank both ministries for taking this step and saying that we want to do it now.
We don't know everything yet. We will identify problems along the way, we will have to understand what we have to do differently. The only way to do that is not with theoretical discussions, but only with action. And that's where we want to start now, linking the regions of Australia, Europe, Germany, and the new supply chains so that they can be put on a commercial footing, so that economic growth can be generated, and energy supply can be secured.
Once again, thank you very much, Madam Minister, Mr Minister, and thank you for allowing us to be part of the project, and we look forward to the future together.
Moderator: Thank you very much, we are at questions and we will start with Mr Kopf, if you would introduce yourself briefly?
Hans Koch, Tagesspiegel: Ok, Mr Bowen, Minister Stark-Watzinger talked about the colour theory of hydrogen, i.e., different blue, green, yellow, grey hydrogen. Will they definitely deliver green hydrogen in 2030 with the first ship? Or will the first deliveries and then perhaps also a longer phase be blue or grey hydrogen?
Minister Bowen: No, we're dedicated to green hydrogen. I agree with the Minister that we need to move towards the lowest possible type of carbon in hydrogen, but this is focused on green hydrogen. We believe that our investments can deliver green hydrogen. There are different projects in relation to Blue Hydrogen, in particular in Australia, but we are focusing all our efforts green hydrogen and I'm very confident that that will be the outcome.
Mr Koch, Tagesspiegel: So exclusively green hydrogen. Is that what you're all about?
Minister Bowen: That's our ambition. That's our technique, absolutely.
Minister Stark-Watzinger: These are also the projects we are presenting today. These are all projects that aim at the production of green hydrogen, the efficient degree and then also the first infrastructures for export. In this respect, the goal is, of course, to get the quantities available quickly for the market and also here in Germany. Then we will certainly have to talk about other colours as well.
Ms Petra Sorg, Bloomberg: I would like to know: The 2030 target is clear, which 4 companies, which you had just briefly mentioned the number, which companies are now involved in this project from Germany and on the Australian side, maybe you can say something there as well?
Minister Stark-Watzinger: Well, there is a whole list, not only 4 companies, but 4 projects, and of course we will present it again on the website for you to follow.
But there are a lot of companies involved. Siemens Energy is one of the consortium leaders in one of the large projects. But there are also companies involved Eisenhuth GmbH, Juniper, Hydrogen Campus Salzgitter and the Australian partners, for example, the University in South Wales. So, it's industry and science, to give you an example from a project that is about the scaling of electrolysers. But there are a lot of companies involved, and also scientific partners. That was the first project. And as I said, we will put all this on the website if you want to follow it.
Moderator: Does anyone want to add?
Dr Bruch, Siemens Energy: Because as I said. So it's about bringing academia and companies together now and I think we as a company are also looking at it a bit. I could go forward, then partnerships, from which also, for example, with Australian partners, if it goes into larger manufacturing. How would that be done? And that's exactly what we're aiming for now, to understand these supply chains, so we're in a new technology where that first has to be created. In this respect, I think all projects try to create the broadest possible basis of participating companies. And how that is, I'll say really from small to large so that you can bring it forward.
Martin Kulanzki, ARD Capital Studio: Martin Kulanski, from the (state TV channel). Perhaps first for Mr. Bruch; you have already hinted at it a little bit, but where do you currently see the greatest difficulties and challenges in the ramp-up of hydrogen?
And to Minister Bowen: Please, to what extent is the Australian government financially supporting these projects? And you yourself have indicated that Australia has ideal conditions for green hydrogen - quite banally asked, why don't you look further ahead, but look at the year 2000?
Dr Bruch, Siemens Energy: I see two big challenges: one is of course that there is no closed commercial business model for green hydrogen today. There are still costs that we have to bring down. In the end, it has to be something that makes sense in the private sector and for that we of course need these follow-up projects in order to be able to scale up, in order to build up this industry, and on the other hand, we have to say that the second element that we are also trying to do within the framework of this project is an old technology that is being newly developed, that is being built up differently, and the supply chains behind it, the suppliers, which materials, where do they come from, is still in many cases a manufactory. And now we have to get that into series production. Also, to get costs down. We have to understand how the resulting materials that we use can create closed material flows. And that is something that is not there today, and they want to do it in a technology that will run for 20 years afterwards. And for that we will have to try things out. And that's where I see the main challenge, that the desire to expand quickly is of course very great, but the development of such things takes time and that's why it's so important to move from talking to doing. This is the building of a new industry. We must not forget that, because it is not just some new model that has been built, so there is a relatively large amount that needs to be done.
Minister Bowen: And in relation to your question, firstly 2030. Why you're so far away? I’d say a few things. Firstly, we will try and beat that. The Minister said 2030 at the latest. But we are being realistic, but I'd also say this. 2030 might seem like a long way away. It's 83 months away, 83 months is not long to develop an industry from scratch to take green hydrogen and make it commercial and get it on ships from our part of the world to yours. That's actually ambitious. I'm confident we can beat 2030, but it's actually ambitious. And in Australia we have some track record. Dr Bruch and I were just discussing before we created an LNG industry from scratch to become a very large exporter in a few years, I'm very confident we can do exactly the same with hydrogen and green hydrogen, but it's a big effort and we are not going to go over promise. We're going to under promise, and we're going to over deliver. That's minister Stark-Watzinger’s approach and it's mine: under promise. Over deliver.
In relation to the financial contribution, is it's very aligned between Australia and Germany. $77 million Australian Dollars in total. For one project alone: for example, $9 million from Australia for one of the other oral projects. There are some where Europe is putting in slightly more. Others were Australian putting in, in Germany's putting in slightly more. But in total, it’s very close to the line, there's a joint contribution.
Minister Stark-Watzinger: We have to create both the offer - these are the first steps we are now taking here to show that it works. On the other hand, we also need to invest in the demand. That's why we have to start bringing them together now, and then also the transport in between. These are investments that have to be made, and that's why it's important that we show that it works. We want to be ambitious with this National Hydrogen Strategy, and only in this way will we pick up the momentum, so that I am also convinced that if we are then faster than we can foresee at the moment. But the investment security must be there and the technical issues must also be solved.
Martin Kulanzki, ARD Capital Studio: To what extent is there still a need for discussion within the Federal Government regarding the colours or do you think the issue is now really settled?
Minister Stark-Watzinger: At the moment we are in the process of coordinating the ministries with regard to the national hydrogen strategy. And we also see that other countries, Norway, for example, is taking a different approach with CCS storage and that the volumes and investments on the demand side must be discussed in order to quickly reach the level that we want. Of course, the different carbon loads in water can be treated differently, but it is important that we act quickly and the clear goal is green hydrogen.
Martin Kulanzki, ARD Capital Studio: Mr. Bowen, it's great for Europe that you are committed to green hydrogen together with us. Why are you doing this together with Europe and not with countries that are closer, like Japan for example, or where it is for you on this global demand map Europe? How important is this for you? Ms Stark-Watzinger, can you say again how large the total funding volume is and how large the contributions from private industry are?
Minister Bowen: Why Europe? Why Germany? why not? Germany is hungry for energy and Australia has energy to share. We have no more important partner than Germany when it comes to energy transformation. We are also working with Japan, of course we are working in our region. Absolutely, but I think what the HySupply report underlines is once the hydrogen is on the ship it doesn't matter whether you take it from Australia to New Zealand or Australia to Germany. Cost is not that massive. This is one of the great benefits of green hydrogen. Yes, it's yes, as I said before, it's hard to get up on the ship. But once you've cacked that technology and made that commercial, it can travel anywhere. And Germany is a great industrial powerhouse of the world. It is hungry for gases. Green hydrogen is a renewable gas and we can take it from Australia to Germany just as easily as we can take it from Australia to Japan, Australia to South Korea, which we're doing too. This is all good and important. But we are not limiting ourselves to our region. The opportunities and challenges are too big for us just to be in regional silos.
Minister Stark-Watzinger: Yes, absolutely, we already import a large part of our fuel from Australia. In this respect, we already have an energy partnership, and we would now like to supplement this, or rather convert to hydrogen in the long term. In this respect, this is something that we are expanding here and, yes, also breaking new ground together. We are now supporting these 4 projects.
With about € 39,000,000 from the German side, or investments that we are promoting. All in all, we are funding green hydrogen at a constant rate of up to €700,000,000 over the years. In 2023, it will be a little less, as the other projects are also being funded, so that technological maturity can be reached.
Yes, exactly the private investments?
Minister Stark-Watzinger: The private investments I don't know if you want to say that Dr Bruch?
Dr Bruch, Siemens Energy: I can now classify this again for our company, you know the funding guidelines. Then you know that more than half of the funding always has to come from the private sector. But in principle, of course, we invest most of our research funds in the further development of hydrogen and related technologies. This can also be about the molecules behind methanol, ammonia, or perhaps we know that we have just inaugurated a plant in Chile that produces renewable fuel, and in this respect this is part of a relatively large research programme for us, which of course goes well beyond the funding. As a company, we invest over a billion in research and development every year in various technologies, but hydrogen is a key element for us.
Sorge, Bloomberg: Yes, thank you very much, I would like to know again specifically how is the green hydrogen going to be transported on the? Should it be totally liquid ice cold, really hydrogen or should it be converted into ammonia? What form of transport do you see? Isn't it very, very expensive, because it has to be extremely frozen, much more so than energy. And maybe the question Germany has announced a lot of import projects, both with Norway Pipeline H2 from Spain, Portugal, France, and now from Australia. What is actually happening with the German build-up capacity of 10 Giga Rat by 2030, which was actually also announced? Is it still there at all? So we haven't heard anything at all in the last few weeks?
Dr Bruch, Siemens Energy: I can get started. Part of the project is to cover this broad possibility of investigating which form transports hydrogen. I think the Minister has already mentioned it and the Minister indicated that there is also a sub-project that is concerned with the molecules, i.e. ammonia or methanol, and it is precisely this that is to be classified over such long distances. What is actually there at the end of the business, the sensible business model to transport as well? That depends not only on the investments and the energy input, but of course also on which supply chains exist today? Where are transport chains, for example, via other molecules that are already there today, where are tanks in ports? Such issues and then to define what is the right way? I would warn against saying now that we know it all, but we have to make exactly this assessment now and in the end, I believe that in 10-15 years we will see a very diverse structure. We will see regions where we will transport liquid hydrogen; we will see regions where ammonia makes much more sense, and we will see regions where methanol will be used. In the end, it will also depend on the use side. And that is exactly what the different partners have to work out now. In the individual projects, and that's why such activities are so important.
Minister Stark-Watzinger: With our lead project Transhyde, we are promoting research and applied research in the field of transport and various options, such as ammonia, methanol, liquid hydrogen or MOHC, in order to see what the various options are. As Mr Bruch has just said, it is likely that at the beginning there will be a lot of ammonia, -33 roast cooled. But there are the transport routes that are already known. That will certainly be the state. And yes, of course we are continuing to build up domestic capacities. We also have H2Mare, for example. We are researching hydrogen production in offshore wind farms.
That's another challenge that falls in this area, producing at sea. Our goal remains to produce 10 terra watts/byte, but we need imports, because if you look at the demand, it's 110/112, so we need imports, and that's why it's good that we're looking at different options now, but Australia is the ideal partner because of the climatic conditions and the long tradition in energy export.