Press conference, Energy and Climate Change Ministerial Council, Adelaide

TOM KOUTSANTONIS: Thank you very much for coming to the Press Club today. I want to thank my parliamentary colleagues and the Energy Ministers of the nation who are here today led by Chris Bowen, who is the Federal Energy Minister, and I welcome all of my colleagues from across the country to beautiful South Australia and Adelaide. We had a productive day, and I'm going to hand over to Chris now to say a few words and talk about the days' productive work, and then we'll take your questions.

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, thanks very much, Tom, and thanks for hosting us here in normal South Australian hospitable fashion, and it's great to be here at the second most important event occurring in Adelaide this afternoon.

Again, as always, it's been a delight to work so closely with my State and Territory colleagues in a very constructive Energy and Climate Ministerial. We dealt with big issues today, and I'll just cover a few of them and then of course take questions.

Firstly, of course, Ministers, join in being very pleased with the progress we're making across the country, the fact that more renewable energy will be added to the grid this year than any year in Australian history is something which is a tribute to all governments working together closely, working on our support for renewable energy, working on our planning systems to ensure appropriate approvals. That hard work that all jurisdictions have been undertaking over recent years is coming to fruition, and the plan is coming together.

We received updates from our market bodies and regulators, particularly around summer readiness, and again, a considerable amount of work has gone in to ensuring a reliable energy system as we go through the peaks and troughs of temperatures and the system that we're operating, very pleased to get strong support and report from Daniel Westerman and the other regulators.

Of course, Ministers also discussed the recent Federal Government initiative to support social housing, and of course previously a $300 million commitment, now moved to an $800 million commitment which has been rolled out in partnership with the States and Territories. People who live in public housing cannot and should not miss out on the opportunities of energy efficiency and renewable energy and we're working together to ensure that they won't miss out. It’s good for them; it reduces their energy bills as their energy use becomes more efficient, it's good for emissions, it's good for their health, and it's just a delight to work with my Energy Minister colleagues and their Housing Minister colleagues to continue to roll out this program over coming years.

Importantly, Ministers today endorsed Australia's First Nations Energy Strategy. Now this is really important. There's been two years of work go into this, and I want to thank Kate George, the co lead of the First Nations Energy Group, together with Travis, and Karrina Nolan, the Chief Executive of the First Nations Clean Energy Taskforce.

You know, the fact of the matter is that this is an enormous opportunity for our country to use the wealth created by renewable energy to ensure equity and ownership for our First Nations peoples.

One per cent of Australia's renewable energy has a form of Indigenous ownership or equity. The equivalent figure in Canada is 20 per cent. That tells me that we have a lot of work to do, but it can be done, and the strategy that we've endorsed and released today is the framework to get that work done.

The Commonwealth is making an investment, we've also got key criteria in our Capacity Investment Scheme, but this is just the beginning of the work. This is not a set and forget, we have more work to do in partnership, true genuine partnership with First Nations peoples. This is practical reconciliation, this is practical engagement on this opportunity to make a huge contribution to the eradication of Indigenous disadvantage in our country, and I'm just so delighted that States and Territories together with the Commonwealth in partnership with First Nations leaders have put to bed two years of work in this important vital next stage for a First Nations Clean Energy Strategy.

We also discussed gas. It's very clear that our Gas Code of Conduct has played a role, an important role in delaying projected gas shortages, but we are still dealing with the situation where both AEMO and ACCC advised us there is more work to do before 2028, and today Ministers agreed on a framework to get that work done. 

To have measures in place by 2028, including ensuring that we have the right level of powers for AEMO and the other bodies, requires agreement now and over the course of the first half of 2025 to ensure we have time for necessary potential legislation through South Australian Parliament or indeed other regulatory changes, and we've agreed on a framework to get that work done.

Of course, those gas shortages projected by 2028 will require private sector investment to fill, but a public sector framework, and that's what we're committed to doing. Gas, we will agree, has an important role to play in supporting the transition, it's a flexible fuel, which you can turn on and off at two minutes' notice. That's pretty important as you're moving to 82 per cent renewables. It's still vital for our industrial heartland.

Green hydrogen has a great future in Australia, but it's not commercial yet. In the meantime we need gas, and of course there's 5 million homes that use gas directly for home heating.

Governments are working to reduce gas demand, and that's important, but that won't be enough, and we'll continue to work together to ensure the reliable supply of gas, not only to our gas fired power stations, but for other uses, and a good framework was entered into today to ensure that we have the right settings in place to make those key decisions next year, and as I said, leave plenty of time for any regulatory changes that need to be made next year.

Finally, we received an update from the Future Market Design Group which will report to this Council next year, led by Dr Tim Nelson, a panel that I announced several weeks ago. It's already started its consultation and work on what will replace the Capacity Investment Scheme in years to come. We need a system fit for purpose. Four experts who are consulting heavily with the States and with other stakeholders and will report for this ECMC to make a collective decision, again towards the end of next year about future market design, but I'm very glad that that work is now underway, and that's vital work for Australia's energy future as well.

I'm going to let   we discussed other matters, but I'm not going to run through the entire full day's agenda. I'm happy to take questions, and I'm sure State and Territory colleagues would be happy to take questions as appropriate.

JOURNALIST: Minister, any major projects that you highlighted in today's chats, is shining lights of what you're looking for in renewable energy in the future?

CHRIS BOWEN: Look, we didn't get down to project by project, we did also discuss our work to prioritise a certain number of projects through the Federal planning system working in tandem with State planning systems, and we've agreed on a framework going forward to ensure that conversation makes good progress.

In terms of individual projects, I will be announcing the next stage of the Capacity Investment Scheme quite soon in terms of the NEM wide auction, that will have some excellent projects in it with real community benefits as well as a lot of energy.

JOURNALIST: Just going down to a local level, sorry to the rest of you, but we have seen the plan for of the Government's green hydrogen up in Whyalla. What do you make of that project and how that's tracking?

CHRIS BOWEN: Look, I'm a big fan of the work that Peter Malinauskas and Tom Koutsantonis are doing here in South Australia, a very big fan, and we'll cooperate as much as we can. This is a State Government led process, and South Australian Government has shown real leadership, and we'll continue to engage in conversations, as I do with all my State and Territory colleagues, about how the Commonwealth can best engage, not to replace State policy but to facilitate the implementation of State policy. 

But the Malinauskas Government has shown not only a commitment to South Australia's energy future, but Australia's industrial future with a big focus on Whyalla. I don't know if Tom wants to add anything there.

SPEAKER: All good.

CHRIS BOWEN: All good, okay.

JOURNALIST: Just earlier this week, we did hear from Peter Dutton saying we need to be looking at diesel generators, because we won't have enough supply. Is that something that you're worried about if we move to renewable energy, will we need some of these diesel generators to fill the gap?

CHRIS BOWEN: No. The way I see it is that when you're moving to a very heavily renewable system, it is very appropriate to have a flexible back up, it's what we call in the game "peaking and firming"; it really means having a back stop. If you look at the ISP, it makes very clear you need over time more gas capacity, less gas dispatch. I.e., have it in the background.

Now, diesel is part of that mix. It is also potentially flexible. I think Tom and I would agree it's not something you want turned on very often, but you want it there, it's like insurance, you don't use it very often, you don't want to use it very often, but you want to know it's there, and that's perfectly appropriate.

Now every State will have their own approach, and I'll work with States on the approach they prefer. But when you move to 82 per cent renewable, which is not 100 per cent, despite what some others say about a renewables-only approach, that is not the Commonwealth's approach.

Quite clearly 82 is not 100. That other 18 is made up of a mix of traditional fuels, and we'll work with States on what the right mix is for that State. But again, I'm a big supporter of the work Tom's doing on his Capacity Investment State Based Scheme, and providing that flexible support for renewables, South Australia's a leader on renewables. 

But I and Tom and the Prime Minister and the Premier agree, you need firming, and that firming can be gas, can other forms. As I said, and I'll finish on this point, I'll repeat it though, you don't want to use it very often, you don't need to use it very often. There's gas fired power stations in the grid today that are turned on, you know, a tiny proportion of the year. But when they're turned on, we need them, and when they're turned off they are zero emissions, and that's a good thing.

JOURNALIST: Turning towards the First Nations energy deal that you've cited, is that going to see more of a traditional owners' say in what happens with the energy projects around the country? 

CHRIS BOWEN: I'm happy to ask Karrina or anybody else to add, but what it's about is real and deep engagement and equity and ownership, and not just consent, full and informed prior consent it's important, vital. But participation is equally vital, and there are great examples across   there's examples in Western Australia, there's other examples where First Nations people have had ownership and stakes. The trouble is, to be honest with you, I can name them. There should be more than I can name, in terms of examples of where this has worked.

If the Canadian Minister was asked a list of successful Indigenous projects, he wouldn't be able to answer 'cause there's too many for him to rattle off, whereas unfortunately in Australia I could rattle them off. I look forward to the day where there's too many for me to know. Karrina do you want a few remarks?

KARRINA NOLAN: Sure. I guess I'll just also, you know, we really welcome this strategy, it's a document that's been shaped and, you know, really has input from our communities right around the country from the last couple of years, and we really congratulate all of the Ministers for the leadership in this strategy, and I think it will actually deal with some of the inequities around energy access, making sure our communities who are on diesel can actually have microgrids, communities that are living in social housing in the cities can access kind of rebates and panels on their roof like other parts of the community in Australia, so will deal with some energy and equity.

And I think the question around traditional owners you know, being proponents ourselves, I think as the Minister said, we've got a long way to go. We need to do investment, we made to make sure that our traditional owner entities are fit for purpose and really resourced well, so that we can actually be proponents.

And of course, I think the other thing the strategy does is it incentivises industry to do the best practice they possibly can and that we're, you know, industry's actually focusing on First Nations' benefits, that the Government also backs in industries doing the right thing. So we're really proud of the document and really look forward to the next couple of years of really implementing it and making sure it's really real.

JOURNALIST: Karrina, it might be one for you, it might be one for the Minister, but you mentioned that consent isn't just   it's not all about consent, but it's an important part of it. Not to pick on you, Minister, [indistinct] but there are energy projects in the NT where Traditional Owners had been against it, quite a [indistinct]. Is that something you want to avoid for this deal in the future?

CHRIS BOWEN: Look, there will always be a range of views, and these are issues that are worked through, through planning systems and through consent processes, and sometimes, to be very frank, there are mixed views amongst First Nations communities. I mean there are people opposed and people supportive. That's part of the challenge, part of the opportunity. But I haven't seen a project where better and real engagement hasn't helped with those issues through and get to an outcome where everyone can benefit, where there's real ownership and equity.

I'm not saying, you know, it needs to lead to 100 per cent support by all people at all times. I've been around long enough to know that that world really doesn't exist. But we can do better in terms of engagement, and I think part of the key is showing First Nations people that we're not just after their consent, we're also after their benefit, and that will help that conversation along as well.

JOURNALIST: A few Liberal colleagues here, how much did nuclear come up in the discussions today?

CHRIS BOWEN: Zero.

JOURNALIST: Zero?

CHRIS BOWEN: 'Cause it's not part of the plans of any government in Australia, to my knowledge. Happy for anyone else to add, but   I mean we're working on our combined plans, which is reliable renewables backed up by gas peaking and firming and other forms of energy where necessary, but nuclear is not a flexible form of energy. When it's turned on, it can't be turned off. It shares that with coal, it shares that facility with coal. What we're interested in is forms of energy which help us and support renewable energy. Nuclear is not one of them.

And you know, if you believe that the energy system's in need of reform, which we all do, you don't really think it's a great idea to reform it in 2037, which is the earliest nuclear could come on.  We're making changes now, in 2024, not 2037.

JOURNALIST: What do you make of Peter Dutton's comments that he will dump the offshore wind zone in the Hunter?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, look, you know, governments have all   political parties of all persuasion need to be careful, as we always were in Opposition, about creating sovereign risk. Peter Dutton doesn't care about jobs, he doesn't care about investment, he doesn't care about sovereign risk. He's creating sovereign risk.

Now offshore wind, I give credit where it's due, I always try to, offshore wind was legislated not by me, by Peter Dutton, when they were in office. I've implemented the Offshore Wind Act, they legislated it.  When they used to pretend to care about climate change, they made a big virtue about what they were doing for offshore wind.

The consultation regime that this Government's implemented was set up by them. Now all of a sudden Peter Dutton cares whales. He hasn't said a word about whales in his 24 years in Parliament, now all of a sudden he's an environmental warrior.

Now he can go to the people of Newcastle and Illawarra and Perth and say he's against jobs. Their position has no logic. David Littleproud said they wanted to cancel these offshore wind zones, but not Gippsland, because he said Gippsland's smaller.

Well, Gippsland wind zone is 15 times bigger than the Hunter wind zone. So they don't know what they're talking about. They don't care about the jobs for the future, they care about their own jobs in the future.

JOURNALIST: Just with his comments as well, do you think they should be looking at creating these industries once communities are more supportive of things like [indistinct].

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, again, we've run through a consultation process. I'm not suggesting that it's unanimously supported in all areas, of course, again, I'm old enough to know that that's not the case.

But there's mixed views. In every wind zone I've declared so far I've made changes after the consultation. People have said we like it here and not there and we take all that into account.

That's how the offshore wind consultations zone, which is a creature of the previous government, was established, and we've been implementing that, and it's also about one of the reasons why we chose those six zones is because they're areas undergoing economic change. The Hunter is undergoing economic change, Gippsland is undergoing economic change; they all are. And they're about creating jobs for the future to replace jobs that are being impacted now.

Now, Peter Dutton doesn't care about that, I do. That's the difference. One more, or you're done?

JOURNALIST: [Indistinct].

CHRIS BOWEN: I am the last person. Tom is going to answer any [indistinct] questions. All righty? I think we're done. I think that's a natural end. All right. Thank you.