Press conference with new Energy Infrastructure Commissioner Tony Mahar, Majura, ACT

CHRIS BOWEN: All right. Thanks for coming, everyone. The role of an Energy Infrastructure Commissioner is a very important one. The Australian Energy Infrastructure Commissioner works across rural and regional Australia to ensure that new renewable energy investments, including transmission, but also solar and wind, work in the best interests of Australia’s regions, the best interests of farmers and the best interests of rural communities.

The role of the Energy Infrastructure Commissioner is to work with communities, to bring communities together to seize the opportunities for renewable energy, to work with proponents and developers and to work with communities and to ensure that communities get a real voice in Australia's renewable energy future. I want to thank Andrew Dyer, who’s been Australia’s Energy Infrastructure Commissioner for the last several years, and, of course, John Sheldon, who’s been acting.

But today I’m announcing the appointment of Tony Mahar as the new infrastructure commissioner, Energy Infrastructure Commissioner. Tony comes from agriculture, grew up in an agriculture family, and has devoted his professional life to rural and regional Australia. And I’m delighted that he’s accepted my invitation to become the new Australian Energy Infrastructure Commissioner. Most recently as Chief Executive of the National Farmers Federation but even before that Tony had lived and breathed rural and regional communities. And I believe he’s uniquely qualified to work with communities in a positive way, bringing communities together with proponents to ensure real and meaningful consultation right through the process and developing renewable energy and ensuring real community benefit. When I say real community benefit, I mean it. I don’t mean new jerseys for the local football club, as worthy and important as that is. I mean ongoing benefits for communities that are hosting renewable energy.

We all know that renewable energy is not just good for Australia; it’s absolutely essential to our energy future. But I also know that it’s important that rural and regional communities should genuinely benefit. And there are plenty of good examples of that not far from here. Some of you would have heard me talk of Ken from Grabben Gullen, a farmer, a cattle farmer, who opposed wind farm developments but now says it’s the best thing that ever happened to him because it’s made his cattle farm much more profitable going forward.

This morning on the ABC I read a story about Hay, which is a town in New South Wales benefitting from renewable energy and seizing those opportunities. But I want to see more stories like that. I want to see more examples of real community benefit.

So I’m going to ask Tony to add just – to say a few things in a moment, but I want to thank him for taking on this role. It’s a new role with a new approach. Some of you, I know, will be tempted to go and google everything Tony has said about the Labor Party recently or the Labor Government. None of that worries me in the slightest. Knock yourselves out and find the worst thing that Tony has said about the Labor Party or, indeed, a Liberal National Party government because Tony’s job has been to stand up for the interests of farmers. It’s now Tony’s job to stand up for the interests of regional communities and to work with renewable energy investors to make those investments a reality and to make them a reality which benefits regional Australia.

After Tony’s spoken, I’m going to take questions about this appointment from journalists here and on the phone. Then I’ll say something more about other issues of the day. Tony as a new government appointee will step away from the more political side of the conversation while I say a few things about events of the day and take your questions separately. So if you’ve got questions about this role I’ll invite you to put them to me and Tony in a moment, then we’ll do a separate session on other matters of the day. Tony.

TONY MAHAR: Thanks, Minister. Can I firstly say thank you to you and to the Albanese Government for offering me this role. This role, I’m under no illusions how difficult and challenging this role will be. And can I also thank Andrew Dyer in his role as previous Energy Infrastructure Commissioner. That report that he released identified challenges and issues and concerns that need to be addressed. And that’s why I’ve taken on this role.

I do have a long history of working with rural and regional communities, bringing stakeholders together, being constructive, being collaborative. And that’s what’s needed to take on this task. I’m incredibly enthusiastic and keen to make sure that we do improve, we do enhance and we do work constructively from a government level, from an industry level and from a rural and regional community level. That will be my task, to bring them together, to address the issues and to make sure that we move forward in a collective, constructive and collaborative way.

We have to have cooperation around Australia’s energy transition. And, again, I’m incredibly enthusiastic about taking up this role and taking up the challenge. I’ve been at the NFF now for ten years and it has been an incredibly challenging role as well. So a new opportunity for me to move into this role, and I look forward to it greatly and I look forward to working with all levels of government, particularly you, Minister, but other portfolios that have an interest in renewable energy and its intersection with not only agriculture but, importantly, the rural and regional communities in which this infrastructure and agriculture is housed.

So thank you for the opportunity. I look forward to working with you.

CHRIS BOWEN: Thanks very much, Tony. We might take questions from journalists who are here physically, and then I’ll go to the phone.

JOURNALIST: Thank you. Tony Mahar, the National Farmers Federation in May passed a no-confidence motion in the Albanese Government over a litany of issues relating to agriculture. So do you support that motion, and why are you now working for a government that you were [indistinct] past, such an extraordinary motion that hadn’t been seen for some time from the NFF?

TONY MAHAR: So a couple of things. I will continue to be employed by the NFF until I depart, and that will hopefully be some time later this year. I had a job to do, as the minister said and other ministers have said. My job was to lead the NFF. The NFF is a broad church of organisations that want agriculture and farming to be a good place. We have policies in place. Sometimes we don’t agree with government, and that’s the case with every colour of government I’ve had the privilege of working with. It was my job to prosecute those issues. And I’m comfortable with that.

I have a job to do as an advocate for farmers. I will now move into a role where I’m advocating for rural and regional communities, energy infrastructure and to make sure we get good outcomes, and I won’t shy away from that.

JOURNALIST: So you still have a position of no confidence in the government on agriculture?

TONY MAHAR: The NFF will maintain that position. What they do going forward is up to them. But that was a position that we took earlier in the year.

CHRIS BOWEN: Other questions here?

JOURNALIST: Yeah. How would you describe the state of the – to Tony – social licence on this infrastructure that’s going through a lot of rural communities? The opposition would have you believe there’s a lot of resistance to it, people don’t want these power lines in their part of the world.

TONY MAHAR: Yeah, it’s mixed. And we have been, as part of the NFF, in consultation working with the governments to develop guidelines around social licence. I mean, Andrew Dyer’s report recognised that, and the government is committed to implementing those recommendations. So it does need some work, but we are on the ground, on the front foot doing exactly that.

CHRIS BOWEN: Okay, we might go to the phone. Questions for either Tony or myself? No?

JOURNALIST: [Indistinct] okay?

CHRIS BOWEN: Yeah.

JOURNALIST: To Mr Mahar, what’s your perception of how poorly the government has been communicating with regional and rural communities affected by energy infrastructure to date? And is there any particular infrastructure that you think is of most concern, where there are concerns [indistinct]?

TONY MAHAR: So I would say that the communication has been a challenge not only for government but for the industry and for the community itself. This is a vexed, complex, tricky issue. And what we have to do is focus on making sure that we address those concerns. They’ve been clearly raised. I’ve taken lots of calls. I’ve been on farm and in community where these concerns have been raised. My commitment is to work with those communities, work with the government, work with energy infrastructure providers to address those issues. There is definitely work to be done and that’s why I’ve taken this job.

JOURNALIST: Tony, when did you get asked were you surprised?

TONY MAHAR: Look, over the last period of time, you know, I’ve been at the NFF for a little while now. You know, jobs come and go and we get interesting phone calls from a range of jobs. So it’s been in the short term, and I was looking for a new challenge, and this is definitely it.

JOURNALIST: Tony, just in relation to regional communities and the kind of energy mix [indistinct], we do hear some of the loudest voices on nuclear energy coming from regional communities. Is nuclear energy supported amongst some parts of regional Australia, and do you think there is an appetite amongst NFF membership to see nuclear power be a part of the mix?

TONY MAHAR: Yeah, look, I’m not here to debate the merits of individual energy sources. I won’t be commenting on nuclear or anything else. Yeah, I think it’s fair to say there are a range of views on all energy sources, whether it’s nuclear, whether it’s renewable, and that will be part of, you know, the consideration going forward. It’s a developing and fast-moving space, so my job will be to make sure I address the challenges of energy infrastructure. Right now, they’re predominantly to my understanding all renewable.

CHRIS BOWEN: Okay. I’m going to take it that that’s it for the announcement about Tony. So thank you, Tony. Tony and I will be available for a photo with some sheep under a solar panel after this.

Alicia [Payne], do you want to join us for the next part of the press conference?

Just on other matters of the day, Peter Dutton had an opportunity today, indeed, an obligation in his big speech about nuclear energy to provide the Australian people with costings, with facts, with modelling and with details about his nuclear scheme. He failed on every single metric. What we saw today was more of the same – more rhetoric, more misleading statements, more basic facts wrong and a speech which raises more questions than it answers – yet again.

It's been months – more than three months – since Peter Dutton announced his nuclear sites. He said the costings and details would follow, and the Australian people are still waiting. The Australian people deserve better. They deserve the details. Mr Dutton says he wants a debate about nuclear energy. You want a debate, you’ve got to come with facts. You’ve got to come with details.

So this speech today was a fizzer. This was a fizzer and a nothing burger – absolutely nothing in it apart from the same old lies, the same old misinformation from Mr Dutton.

Basic facts wrong, the same claims about 19 out of 20 countries in the G20, which are wrong, new claims that somehow nuclear energy has lower running costs than solar and renewables, which is wrong.

So I don’t know when Mr Dutton is planning on levelling with the Australian people, but the Australian people deserve the details. He’s treating the Australian people like mugs, treating them arrogantly, with contempt of not providing them with the information and details that the Australian people deserve about Mr Dutton’s nuclear plan. The Australian people deserve better. I’m up to debate Mr O’Brien about nuclear energy, but he’s got to come with facts and details, and the Liberal Party squibbed it yet again today.

Happy to take questions.

JOURNALIST: Isn’t one of the points that Dutton makes is that nuclear lasts eight decades and in that time you’d have to replace renewables three, four times?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, this is part of Mr Dutton’s ongoing anti-renewables prejudice. He doesn’t understand renewable energy. He says batteries only last a couple of hours. He doesn’t realise, doesn’t understand, how batteries work. The analysis last week from the International Energy Economics and Finance Association, which Mr Dutton and Mr O’Brien pooh-poohs, assumes a nuclear reactor with a long life and finds it’s got very long costs. They make things up about renewable energy and how long it lasts and whether it’s recyclable. Renewable energy is increasingly recyclable. I’ll tell you what has a waste problem – that’s nuclear energy. The nuclear energy waste lasts a lot longer than renewable energy waste. So, again, just – it’s just the same old anti-renewable prejudice from Mr Dutton. A lack of facts.

JOURNALIST: Mr Dutton did admit today that their plan would have a significant upfront cost, yet, without the details. But he also said that he gave the guarantee that their nuclear plan would cost a fraction of what is happening through renewables. What do you say to that?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, he make up the cost of renewables. I mean, he just invents figures about renewables. He doesn’t understand it. If Mr Dutton knows the costings– and I believe he does; he’s not the only one to say they’ve done the costings – well, where are they? Well, if he’s got the costings, release them. And if the Australian people aren’t – if he doesn’t trust the Australian people with the costings, he should explain why. He’s got the costings. Goodness knows who’s done the costings for him because I doubt if the Treasury or the Parliamentary Budget Office – but whoever he’s got to do them, release them.

JOURNALIST: Mr Bowen, just in terms of the way this has unfolded, have you sought advice from and had proper consultation in the communities in areas where coal-fired power stations are shutting down about whether they would like a renewable industry or whether they would like nuclear power so they have a job going forward?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, it’s up to Mr Dutton to talk to communities about his plans. But I have been going to those communities.

JOURNALIST: And what do they say?

CHRIS BOWEN: So I’ve been to Collie a few weeks ago. I’ve been to Central Queensland. I’ve been to the site in South Australia. Mr Dutton hasn’t been to Collie or the South Australian site. I have. I’ve spoken to communities extensively at Collie. And the Prime Minister was the first Prime Minister to visit Collie in 40 years. Mr Dutton hasn’t even been there. I believe he’s never been there in his life, yet he thinks that a nuclear reactor is the right answer for them.

And I’ll tell you what all those communities – you say what about the jobs from nuclear. Well, even if there are jobs in nuclear – and I think it’s highly questionable whether those jobs are able to replace jobs from coal-fired power stations – they’re decades away. What these communities need are jobs now and in the next few years. Even under their own timetable – which is a fantasy – of 2035, that’s 10 years away or more. We need renewable jobs and storage jobs and investment right across the board in these communities in the next few years to ensure that not only people leaving coal-fired power station jobs have jobs but young people who want to stay in the area can get jobs.

So this is a fake offering from Mr Dutton because it is decades away. It’s false hope for regional communities.

And when I go to those communities – which I’ve done and will continue to do, and Mr Dutton has failed to do – they say, “We need these investments and jobs today and in the next few years, not in the 2040s.”

Questions on the phone?

NICK O’MALLEY: Hi, Minister. Nick O ‘Malley from the Herald. Two things from Mr Dutton’s speech today: one was he said that he believed that you’d agree with him that Australia needs to expand its baseload. I’m wondering if that’s the case. And, secondly, he referred – I don’t know if this has been raised in press conference; I couldn’t hear it – but he again said that the Ontario experience demonstrated that nuclear would be far cheaper. Can you respond to those elements?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, he gets it wrong on Ontario all the time. He talks about Ontario power prices, but what he doesn’t say is that the Ontario Government subsidises energy prices to an extraordinary extent. It’s a matter for them, but is he proposing similar government subsidies for energy prices? I mean, there’s a massive government payment in Ontario to reduce power prices because they’re so high.

The other thing he doesn’t point out that in the province next door, which is more than 90 per cent renewable hydro, energy prices are cheaper than Ontario. Energy prices are cheaper in the province next door which doesn’t have the nuclear energy that Ontario has. So he just gets the basic facts wrong.

In relation to baseload, again, he just doesn’t understand the energy system, that we’re moving to a renewable energy system which requires peaking and firming, I agree with that; it needs peaking and firming, but that peaking and firming has to be flexible. Now, I’ll tell you what’s not flexible – coal is not flexible and nuclear is not flexible. Gas is. Gas is. That’s why our position is to get to 82 per cent renewables backed by transmission and storage and firmed and – with firming and peaking by gas. That’s our position. That’s the sensible position. Nuclear and coal cannot provide that peaking and firming role as we’re building the storage and transmission which goes with renewables.

NICK O’MALLEY: Thank you.

CHRIS BOWEN: Okay? I think we’re all in, all done.

JOURNALIST: Minister, can I just ask –

CHRIS BOWEN: Yes.

JOURNALIST: Following up on gas, Peter Dutton was asked how he’d make gas cheaper. He says he’d bring on supply. Do you agree that gas does need to be cheaper, and how would the Albanese Government achieve that? And also can I just get your reaction to Peter Dutton’s comment that nuclear power will be Australia’s only chance to reach net zero by 2050?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, he’s wrong on that, and I noticed also that he talked down Australia when he says there’s no chance of a future made in Australia. Talking down our country, talking down our manufacturing capability was, I think, frankly disgusting. We believe in, the Albanese Government, in Australia’s future. We believe in Australia ‘s future that makes things, and we believe in a future made in Australia. And renewable energy is key to that in our view.

In relation to his other comments, he just gets the basic facts wrong time after time. Was there a particular element you wanted me to respond to that I missed there?

JOURNALIST: I just wanted to ask how the Albanese Government – do you think gas needs to be cheaper –

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, we intervened in the gas market with him opposing us. We intervened to cap gas prices and he opposed it. He voted against lower gas prices. So of course we want to see affordable gas. We’ve had a – we introduced a policy to cap gas prices. He opposed it. He’s got no credibility.

All right, I think we’re in. All in, all done. Thanks for your time, everyone.