Press Conference in Rhodes, New South Wales

SALLY SITOU: It's great to have the Minister here with us at this fantastic household that has taken up the challenge to be more energy efficient, and I thank's Steve for having us here. Peter Dutton has decided to take the biggest gamble this country has ever seen, like he's visted a casino, and decided to go all in on Snake Eyes. His energy, nuclear energy policy is technically, really difficult, economically irresponsible, and environmentally reckless, and we are going to be the ones who are paying the price with higher energy prices and with the future of our children and our grandchildren. Peter Dutton needs to stop being so reckless with this country's future. Thank you very much, Minister for being here.

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, thanks very much, Sally, thanks for having me back in your wonderful community. And thanks to Steve, the local resident who's hosting us today. Well, yesterday, after months of delays, of hiding, of excuses, Peter Dutton finally released his nuclear costings, and now we know why it took him so long because they are a national embarrassment. They are full of holes, false assumptions, cons, and lies. Perhaps the biggest one is that he's assumed that Australia will need less energy in 2050.

He's assumed that we can make less electricity, and his big contribution to the debate is less electricity will cost less. He's not even asserting properly that nuclear will cost less. He's just asserting that we'll need less electricity, which is a recipe for economic disaster and risking the choices of Australians. We want Australians to have proper choices, the choices to have an EV, the choice to electrify their home. Australian industry to have the choice to grow. We want a growing economy which uses more electricity, not less. He wants a slowing economy which uses less electricity, not more.

And one of the bizarre things in his announcement yesterday was he claimed at one point that the rationale for nuclear energy is that you can't charge an EV and a battery at the same time with the solar panels off your roof. Now, he shows time and time again, and he doesn't know how electricity works, because, as the millions of Australians who've got solar panels and a battery and an EV charger know you can do that. I'm not quite sure, even if you couldn't, how that justifies hundreds of billions of dollars of expenditure on nuclear energy, but in the bizarre Peter Dutton world of energy, apparently that's a reason, and it's a reason which doesn't stack up.

And another thing that many, many Australians have raised with me is the question that they put to me is, well, we've invested in solar panels on our roofs. We like to use that solar energy during the day, and what we have excess we feed into the grid. And how will that work with nuclear? Well, with 38% under his bizarre plan of Australia's energy coming from nuclear energy, by 2050 a third of that nuclear energy would, by definition, be generated during the day, which would see curtailed solar panels, around 67% of the time. Now, what we would see is solar, Australia's booming solar industry stopped in its tracks. We, I recently with Smart Energy Council and Clean Energy Council attended the installation the fourth million solar panels in Australia, the fourth million rooftop solar installation, and Australia leads the world in rooftop solar. And we have more to do, and Peter Dutton wants to stop all that.

So Peter Dutton has some very serious explaining to do. His costings don't have a black hole, they've got a black crater. They are the worst costings in 40 years from an opposition, the biggest mistakes in 40 years that we've seen from an opposition on a most important matter, and as Sally said, that's a huge risk for Australia. It's a gamble that Australia doesn't need to take. Peter Dutton is reckless and he's risky, and we don't need that risk in Australia, when we have done so well. We will have generated or connected more renewable energy this year than any other year in Australian history. I think that's a good thing. Peter Dutton thinks it's a bad thing. I think it's a good thing that Australia leads the world in rooftop solar. Peter Dutton doesn't understand it, and apparently thinks it's a bad thing. So we look forward to many more press conferences from Peter Dutton and Ted O'Brien. I hope they're out doing another one today, because they'll have many, many questions to answer.

I'm going to hand over to John Grimes, the chief executive of the Smart Energy Council. Smart Energy Council, lead with our counterparts to Australia's solar industry, for his reaction. And then Sally and I and John will be happy to take questions and Steve our local landholder who's invested in solar and a battery is also here today, and I want to thank him for hosting us today. Over to you, John, and then we'll take questions

JOHN GRIMES: Well, Minister, thank you. As the Minister said, the smarter Council is responsible for the 40,000 rooftop solar workers around the country, the 4 million Australians that have invested their own money in getting solar energy, and on average, save $1,000 per year each from it. And we have a deep interest in the 4 million and more households yet to go, people who don't yet have solar, but would really love to have solar, because everybody knows the one thing you can do to cut your power bills, is to get solar. If you're interested in cost of living, back solar. If youre interested in electricity bills, back solar. If you're interested, like Steve on the cusp of retirement, about locking in your future energy costs as known and not being subject to the ever inflationary cost, then get solar.

We are very concerned, because the initial modeling shows that up to two thirds of every solar system installed in Australia today will be shut off every single day under Peter Dutton's nuclear plan. This actually is not about nuclear energy. This is a solar stopper policy. Two thirds of Australia, every one of those 4 million Mums and Dads and small business owners right around the country actually saving money today, Peter Dutton wants to take that away from Australians, and worse than that, he wants to take away the pathway for the 4 million more who want to get solar on their rooftop. What we should be doing is backing in the government scheme to make solar cheaper for all Australians. We should be putting solar on every rooftop, because that is the pathway to cost of living reductions. And what a terrible time, right before Christmas, 40,000 solar rooftop workers now with uncertainty about what their future looks like. If Peter Dutton comes to office, those people are absolutely in the crosshairs. Mums and dads are in the crosshairs. We are deeply, deeply concerned, because this is economic vandalism. It is not the way to cheaper electricity, it's the way to more pollution and higher power bills.

MINISTER BOWEN: Thanks, John. I believe our questions will be coming in from the phone today, so over to you phone folks.

JOURNALIST: Thanks Minister, Rob Scott here from Seven. Can you just expand a bit more on why you think having nuclear as 38% of base load power would be such an impact on solar. You're saying that solar won't be able to feed back into the grid. Or can you just explain that?

MINISTER BOWEN: Yeah, certainly, Rob. Peter Dutton, yesterday revealed his plan, if you can believe it, to have 38% of Australia's energy being nuclear by 2050. Now this is the government that couldn't deliver a car park at a railway station, thinks they can deliver 38% nuclear power across the country. But put that to one side, Australia is unique in terms of our rooftop solar industry. We lead the world. A third of Australian houses have solar panels on their roof, and that's growing rapidly every day. You just got to drive around the suburbs you see more solar panels going on. That's not consistent with nuclear, because nuclear runs 24/7, you can't turn it off. Now Peter Dutton thinks that's a good thing. I point out, that what you need to support a heavily [inaudible] is a flexible power source, which is gas. You can turn gas on and off. Nuclear and coal you can't. Now what that means is, as John said, the analysis shows that more than 60% of the rooftop solar operating during the day would have to be switched off in that circumstance, couldn't feed into the grid. More than 60% on a regular basis, would just not be able to operate and feed into the grid at any particular time. Now that undermines the fundamental economics of the rooftop solar industry, which is developed in Australia in no small part due to the Renewable Energy Target the previous Labor government put in place, which the Liberal Party opposed, which Tony Abbott tried to abolish, and which they still don't believe in.

JOURNALIST: You just point, it's Lucy Gray from Channel 10, point to analysis that rooftop solar would have to be switched off. What analysis are you referring to, and why can't you have, I don't understand why you can't have nuclear, 24/7, and solar? Would the grid be overwhelmed? Yes. What's the problem?

MINISTER BOWEN: Yeah, that's right, Lucy, it's a fair question. And this is our analysis, which we're releasing this morning. And it's a fair question. It shows that, well, the situation is you need the right amount of energy in the grid, you've got to have enough, but you can't have too much, or the grid won't cope. If you're feeding power from nuclear power. Power stations and solar rooftop into the grid, the grid won't cope. It's just the reality, it takes very careful management via AEMO to do this and that works. You've got to have, you have days of minimum demand, days of maximum demand. You've got to have days where you ask generators to put more in. You have days where you ask generators to put less in. But with nuclear, it is not a flexible option which can complement a heavy rooftop solar penetration like we do in Australia.

JOURNALIST: Hi, Minister. Just a question from Amanda Copp from Nine news. Do you think that this opens up again, this debate over energy and how we get to net zero, creating a lot of uncertainty for business. How do you think that that uncertainty impacts the overall cost for business, but also for consumers at the end of the day and their power bills?

MINISTER BOWEN: Yeah Amanda, thanks. I do, I do think this opens up that question again, and the problem here is not just the costs of Peter Dutton's nuclear fantasy, very, very expensive, despite his fabrication of a costing that he put out yesterday, which had three fatal errors, as I said, the biggest mistakes in a opposition costing in 40 years, and Ted O'Brien has to answer for that. But the other point is that under our plan, we see investment coming primarily from the private sector. You know, we see big renewable companies investing in Australia. We see energy companies transitioning from their old coal fired power to more renewables. Peter Dutton's plan, as released yesterday, sees none of that, because every single dollar of his nuclear plan will be paid for by the government, the taxpayer. Now that's because he knows it's a dog, because he knows the private sector won't invest. To be fair, they admit that, its no secret to admit that it all comes from government. Now this is a long way of answering your question, because that means that the private sector looks at that and says, 'well, why would we compete with subsidies from the government? You know, why would we come and invest our millions of dollars that we have in our pension funds or our savings from around the world, in Australia. If Peter Dutton was Prime Minister, they'd be competing against subsidised taxpayer nuclear fantasies. So it would be a chill to investment, and that's what Peter Dutton wants. He wants to see renewable investment in Australia chilled.

JOURNALIST: And just a second question, if Peter Dutton and the opposition do win the next election, that's a pretty strong mandate for their plan for nuclear. If that does happen, will the Labor Party support their plan for energy?

MINISTER BOWEN: You're asking me about a hypothetical on a hypothetical. We're in this election campaign to win it, to implement our policies from Government. You could put the question to Mr. Dutton, if he loses, will he drop nuclear? I'm not interested in the what ifs. I'm interested in winning a good, solid Labor majority government so that we can get on with the job we've started. We've started change in this country. The Australian people voted for us in 2022 to change the country. We've started that change. But you need, you need a good few terms to implement that change and bed it down, particularly in the climate change space, but across the board, and that's what we intend to keep doing.

JOURNALIST: Lucy again from Channel 10, could we ask Steve a question? Sure, how much have you invested in solar

JOURNALIST: Before we jump over, would you mind just one more question from, it's Isobel at the ABC here -

MINISTER BOWEN: Yeah, sure, that's fine.  

JOURNALIST: Thanks so much. I just wanted to see Minister. Do you believe that the coalition will cancel existing renewable energy projects like solar farms and wind farms, and if they're private sector, how would they do that?

MINISTER BOWEN: Well, I mean, they are interested in creating sovereign risk. I mean, they're doing that already on offshore wind. They've said they'll cancel three offshore wind zones. Again. This is a massive opportunity for private sector investment that the Liberal Party doesn't want. Now it's up to them to announce what they would do on things like the Capacity Investment Scheme and other planning approvals. But they don't care about certainty for business. They don't care about investment certainty. They don't care about sovereign risk. I fear that the correct answer to your question is yes, but they'll have more explaining to do, yes. And John, John's going to add to that, and then we'll hand over to Steve.

JOURNALIST: I'm sorry, Minister, I've just got one more question from our colleagues at the at the end -  

MINISTER BOWEN: Why don't we hear from John and then you can I'll give you another go.

JOURNALIST: Thank you. Sorry.

JOHN GRIMES: So what we learned yesterday is that the coalition has set a ceiling for renewable energy in Australia, a ceiling of 54% of our total energy mix. Today, we're at 40% in a couple of years time, we're going to be at 54% that means out to 2050 the Coalition is saying no more renewable energy to be built on the grid. No more large solar farms, no more large wind farms, no more rooftop solar. That is an outrageous proposition, and one that the industry and the people of Australia will fight hard against 

MINISTER BOWEN: Why don't we hear from Steve? And I will come back here for other questions. I'll just keep the flow going. So Steve over to you, mate.

STEVE LEVI: Ok to answer the question about how much did I spend, or, sorry, how much solar I have. First, I have nine kilowatts of solar on my roof, and I have 20 kilowatt hours of batteries. And I didn't, I regard, I didn't invest the money,  I spent the money the same as I would spend the money on a motor car for my own convenience. So the solar panels are on the roof, so I can be responsible for my high use of energy and to control the energy that I use.  

MINISTER BOWEN: Thank you. Steve

JOURNALIST: How much did it set you back?  

STEVE LEVI: Oh, I spent, I think I spent around, I don't know, $20,000 yeah, yeah. Thank you.

JOURNALIST: Yeah, okay.

JOURNALIST: Steve, I've got another question for you.

MINISTER BOWEN: Steve, you're the star of the show.

JOURNALIST: Steve, you obviously like to be responsible for your own energy. If you're you know, if you can't feed back into the grid, you're not able to help others. How does that make you feel?

STEVE LEVI: Well, I use most of my energy, and I feed just very little back into the grid. And so I don't really help the grid much. So I'm just quite happy with what I have.

JOURNALIST: Other people would like to have when you have but if, if the Dutton government, there is a Dutton government, there's going to be less investment in solar. What do you think about that?

STEVE LEVI: I wouldn't be happy at all. I think nuclear is very old technology. I think solar is the way to go and battery storage. I think you only have to look at how many battery operated appliances we have now in our home, and that is definitely the way the future.

JOURNALIST: Do you see that $20,000 would be wasted under this [inaudible]

STEVE LEVI: Oh I wouldn't really answer, have an answer to that. I don't know.

MINISTER BOWEN: Okay, folks, any more questions for me?

JOURNALIST: Yeah, just one more. So yesterday at Peter Dutton's press conference, the opposition essentially confirmed, or at least confirmed by not really saying anything, that they, that this isn't necessarily going to cut power bills until many decades from now, or many years from now. What's your reaction to that? That you know this isn't really a plan to cut power bills?

MINISTER BOWEN: Well, Peter Dutton looks at the energy system and looks at Australian bills and says, Well, this edge urgent help, and I'll be back to you in 2037. That's what he says. I mean, even their own plan admits they won't get any new nuclear power into the grid by 2037. Now, I happen to think they won't do that, and every expert thinks they won't do that because it's an unrealistic timeline. But even under their own plan, they're saying this urgent problem needs the most expensive form of power in 2037. I look at the problem today of cost of living, and say what we need is the cheapest form of power in 2024. Peter Dutton says he wants the most expensive form of power in 2037. You're right, by his own admission, after months of carrying on about power bills, yesterday, they couldn't even pretend to make a claim that nuclear would put power bills down, because it's a lie.

Okay, I'm going to take that as a wrap, guys, I think.