Interview with Greg Jennett, ABC Afternoon Briefing

GREG JENNETT: It's not just a substantive bill to establish this year's referendum that the government's got to drive through the Parliament. There's also that matter of its carbon cutting safeguard mechanism that we've just been discussing there, it has to be passed. Assistant Climate Change and Energy Minister Jenny McAllister is not directly involved in the first, but she is on the second and we spoke to her a few moments ago on both.

Jenny McAllister, welcome back. There was a kind of sense of history and occasion in the building, well, more specifically in the Blue Room today, as the Prime Minister outlined the question for the referendum. Are you gripped by that sense of occasion?

JENNY MCALLISTER: It was an emotional moment, wasn't it, Greg? I mean, you saw the Prime Minister, Senator Dodson, Minister Burney, Senator McCarthy and other indigenous members of the Labor caucus joined on stage by some of the most eminent leaders, First Nations leaders that Australia has produced. And they were speaking about the historic opportunity before the Australian people. I found it emotional. I'm not surprised that some of the people who were involved in the press conference found it emotional and I think it's reflective of how the Australian people may respond to the opportunity that is now to be put before them.

GREG JENNETT: It is both an end point for the working group in providing its advice, but very much a starting point for what lies ahead. Great care and legal attention has been given to the wording. Is it beyond demolition, beyond challenge by those we might describe as constitutional conservatives who are hung up about references to executive government?

JENNY MCALLISTER: Well, the question that will be put before the people in many ways is quite simple. There was a generous offer made to us at Uluru many years ago now to establish a voice, a voice which in the Constitution would recognise the continuing connection of First Nations People in this land over many thousands of years, but also that would establish a framework for First Nations people to be heard. And that is what Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people are telling us that they want. It is now up to the Australian people and many people will express a view. I imagine there will be continuing debate, but in the end, this is an important moment for the Australian people and something for the Australian people to seize a hold of and become involved in.

GREG JENNETT: Now, you're not to read Peter Dutton's mind, or anyone on the Coalition side for that matter, but is there anything about their conduct in the Senate? We've been talking to others on the program about the Machinery Bill that went through with bipartisan support. Is there anything about that that says to you they may yet be persuaded to support the constitutional amendment?

JENNY MCALLISTER: Well, we hope that we do receive support from Parliamentarians right across the spectrum. And I think the Prime Minister has been very clear that he is willing to work with any person in good faith in this building who wants to be involved. But in the end, again, this is not up to the politicians. First Nations organisations, civil society organisations, community organisations will go out there now and put their case and I really encourage your viewers to take an interest, read the material, get involved, talk to people, because this is a really important moment for Australia.

GREG JENNETT: And there will be a wealth of that material as it kind of snowballs closer to the date. Why don't we go to things more squarely in your portfolio responsibility. Safeguard mechanism - clearly, negotiations are close to complete with the Greens, I’d love your insights into that. But also, the bolt that comes in from left field, Bob Brown quitting the Conservation Foundation, Nick McKim saying the ACF has absolute moral bankruptcy. Does this make it harder for Adam Bandt to do that deal with you?

JENNY MCALLISTER: Well, these are all matters for the Greens, and you probably should direct your questions to Mr Bandt -

GREG JENNETT: We tried, by the way, but not available today.

JENNY MCALLISTER: I understand, but look, here's the thing. We have had a decade where Australia's climate policies and as a consequence, Australia's energy policies weren't settled. And at the last election, the Australian people voted for something very different. They voted for climate action. We have a parliament comprised of a majority of parliamentarians in both places who want climate action. We are calling on all of those parliamentarians to really turn their minds to the importance of the choice that's now before them. We have a chance to put in place a legislative framework that will bring down emissions. We should seize it.

GREG JENNETT: Is it true, as we hear, and we don't have great insights into these negotiations, as you would expect, that the Greens aren't so much hammering no new coal and gas these days, they are now down to the tin tax of the bill itself. By that I mean credits and offsets, the merits of what's actually there on paper. Is that where the conversation is centred at present?

JENNY MCALLISTER: Well, I think Mr Bowen's made it really clear that he's willing to work with anyone in the Parliament who brings forward a good idea where it's aligned with our mandate and our overall policy trajectory. We've been clear that the Greens call for no new coal or gas is not something that we'd contemplate, but negotiations are continuing. I understand that they're very constructive. They are being conducted in good faith and we're very hopeful of a productive outcome.

GREG JENNETT: Containing the use of credits which were under the original design, are unlimited?

JENNY MCALLISTER: Look, I'm not going to go into the details of what's being negotiated, Greg, and I really don't think you'd expect me to. But I will say that we appreciate, we appreciate, it when parliamentary colleagues do speak with us, they speak with us honestly. And of course, when they do so, we treat those negotiations in confidence until we come to an arrangement.

GREG JENNETT: Is there a vulnerability for Labor electorally here? When you read Bob Brown making threats to himself and perhaps with like-minded people campaign against Labor and drive down its 33 per cent primary vote as his stated intention, is that a threat that concerns you?

JENNY MCALLISTER: Well, in the end, our job is to make decisions in the national interest. It is very clear that it is in our national interest to establish a clear and certain policy framework that will bring emissions down. It's important for our trading relationships, it's important for the productivity and efficiency of our businesses. And frankly, it is important that we contribute to the global effort to tackle climate change because Australians are very exposed to the impacts of a warming world. Those are the factors that weigh most on our mind. Frankly, the Australian people did vote for climate action, and we're very determined to deliver it.

GREG JENNETT: Yeah, I suppose it's one of those equations, something or nothing. And Bob Brown has obviously been there before.

JENNY MCALLISTER: He certainly has.

GREG JENNETT: Maybe by this time next week there might be something more concrete to talk about coming out of the Senate on all of this. If so, we might haul you back. Jenny McAllister. You're always welcome.

JENNY MCALLISTER: Thanks so much, Greg.