2GB Drive interview with Minister for the Environment and Water Tanya Plibersek

SUBJECTS: Social media regulation, Australia-China relations, renewable energy zones. 

CHRIS O'KEEFE, HOST: Now, what do you think of this? Do you think we need to put warning labels on social media platforms? Because there's a new push for this to be introduced in the United States, courtesy of the US Surgeon General, Dr. Vivek Murthy. And in an opinion piece in the New York Times, Doctor Murthy wrote this quote "The mental health crisis amongst young people is an emergency, and social media has emerged as an important contributor." Now, I reckon this might be worthwhile because I remember when Nicola Roxon was Health Minister and the idea was, oh, we're going to make cigarettes, plain packaging. Well, and there was outrage about it. Why do you need to do that? Well, has it been a bad idea? Is this going to be a bad idea? I think we should. Tanya Plibersek, member for Sydney and Minister for Environment and Water. She's on the line. Minister, thanks for your time.

TANYA PLIBERSEK, MINISTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND WATER: Oh, it's always a pleasure to be with you, Chris.

O'KEEFE: Social media, I think there's something in this, what do you?

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Look, I think it's fantastic that we're having a conversation about this, and parents in particular feel all at sea when it comes to social media. And we've done some really good work with the e-Safety Commissioner. We've quadrupled the funding for the e-Safety Commissioner and she's got fantastic resources. So, the first thing I'd say to parents is check out those resources. The Alannah and Madeline Foundation, again, great resources for schools to help kids learn how to be responsible in the Internet age. 

But I think there's real truth to the fact that as social media use has gone up amongst teenagers, so have a whole lot of mental health issues that teenagers are facing. And anxiety particularly is very prevalent amongst young people today. I don't think it's any coincidence that has Internet usages gone up, so has anxiety and some of these other problems.

O'KEEFE: So, a warning how, and you were around when people were saying to Nicola Roxon- "Oh, you're mad. What are you doing this for? You don't need plain packaging for cigarettes". And it made a discernible difference. Maybe this could too.

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, it absolutely did. In fact, I followed Nicola as Health Minister, so I had the job of—it was Nicola's initiative—but I had the job of actually implementing it and I had all sorts of pushback from the usual suspects saying that it would be, you know, cause all sorts of disasters.

It's been fantastic. We got smoking rates in Australia down to 13 per cent, which was absolutely world leading. I mean, I'm worried about vaping now because that's getting nicotine use up again. But those warning labels, plain packaging, made a huge difference.

And that's why, like, right now, we're really having this discussion about the Internet and social media. We've got a parliamentary committee looking at it. We've got a trial of age assurance technologies as well. We're talking to child development experts and parents and other experts to see what is the right age to allow kids to get on the social media.

I mean, they're supposed to be 13 now. I tell you, pretty much every 13-year-old I know knows how to circumvent those rules. You know, there's a lot of kids a lot younger than 13 that are getting on the social media, and they're experts at getting around their parents and getting around the rules that the social media giants have set up.

And the reason is they're simply not serious, these social media companies, about policing this, because they know that, just like the cigarette companies, their future profits are based on getting kids hooked early. You get them hooked early to the social media, you've got lifelong users, and that's how they make their money.

O'KEEFE: I'm speaking to the Environment Minister, Tanya Plibersek. Minister, given you are in that portfolio, what do you make of the news today that Matt Kean is resigning from state parliament? He's done a lot in your space.

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Yeah, I wish him well. And if he sounds like he's going to work in the private sector, perhaps on renewable energy, there's plenty of jobs. We've got a big challenge ahead of us to get to 82 per cent renewable energy, and Matt Kean would be a great, I think, a great addition to the task of getting us there.

O'KEEFE: According to the Fin review and a Freshwater poll, support amongst women for Anthony Albanese has fallen from a net positive approval rating of 11 per cent to a net negative of 12. Why are women deserting the Prime Minister?

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, I mean, you have to take polls with a grain of salt, don't you? We've got to focus on the real world here. And the real world is, in two weeks’ time, 13.6 million taxpayers, every single one, will get a tax cut. In two weeks’ time, all those people on low wages will get the third pay rise that they've seen since we've come to government. That's the thing that makes a real difference to people's lives.
In the area of women, we've invested $3.4 billion since coming to the Government on issues around family and domestic violence. Absolutely much needed and of course, there's always still more to do and we've got the lowest gender pay gap in history. So, we really are taking on issues to support Australian women with cheaper childcare, extending --

O'KEEFE: But with all these numbers, they're not listening, are they?

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, you know, I think, as I say, you got to take polls with a grain of salt. They go up, they go down. We got to be focused on what's happening in the real world and making sure that we're delivering for Australian women. And we are.

O'KEEFE: What about China? Do you trust them? I know that the Chinese premier is here and there's a lot of kerfuffle and hullabaloo about his arrival. I know the relationship's important, but do you trust them?

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Look, I think it's really good to have a relationship where we can pick up the phone and try and iron out differences, but there will be differences from time to time. And the way that we've been saying it is, we'll work together, we'll cooperate where we can, but we'll disagree where we must. And there'll always be times when our different systems. And we've got concerns about individual Australians who are in jail in China or human rights more generally. And certainly we've had concerns about some of the very close calls we've had with Chinese military approaching our ships and our personnel in a way that doesn't feel at all safe.

We've got to be able to raise those concerns at the same time as recognising that by restoring trade in these areas where we've managed to do it with wine and so on, we've increased Australia's wealth by $19 billion. This is a huge trading relationship for us and if we can stabilise it, that's a good thing. It's particularly a good thing for our farmers.

O'KEEFE: Minister, before you let you go, I've had a lot of correspondence about this over the last few weeks. The renewable energy zone or the offshore wind farm, now gazetted by Chris Bowen for the Illawarra. A lot of people very unhappy about it. Will you get ultimate say in this?

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, there's a lot of people who are really happy about it, too, because they know that renewable energy is both cheaper and--

O'KEEFE: Sure, sure, sure. but just in terms of the Environmental aspect of it. Do you get final say on it?

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: We certainly have a say. And I can tell you that both this renewable energy zone and the one off the coast down in Victoria, we've actually changed the outline of the zone to make sure that it has less of an environmental impact. The zones have been smaller and areas that were originally going to be included have not been included for the very reason that we want to have a minimal impact on nature. But you know what? The biggest thing that's going to impact nature is climate change...to deal with it.

O'KEEFE: Sure, but I just, I think its important --

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: And on top of that [indistinct] energy…

O'KEEFE: I just want to talk about the mechanics of how this decision will be made. When are you likely to make the ultimate decision on whether or not this will go ahead? Will a proposal have to be on your desk to actually build the thing first?

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Yeah. Well, because I'm a decision-maker, I can't offer a commentary on this, and I certainly can't talk about dates and so on. But what I will say is we've had great consultation with Minister Bowen. We've already seen amendments to renewable energy zones because of that. And I want to see wherever possible, good quality renewable energy projects, projects get the go-ahead. And that's why I've already ticked off more than 50 renewable energy projects onshore and offshore.

O'KEEFE: Tanya Plibersek, I really appreciate you coming on, as always. Have a good afternoon.

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Always a pleasure.