2GB Drive interview with Minister for the Environment and Water Tanya Plibersek

CHRIS O'KEEFE: Well, it's been quite the week, plenty going on across the country, plenty going on in Canberra too, but I think it's worth having a look at salmon farming, because we spoke about it for the Minister for the Environment, Tanya Plibersek, last time she was on the program, and now it looks like the industry in Macquarie Harbour in Tasmania is now in a state of limbo for the next 12 months. So, workers are understandably at their wits' end in regards to this decision now not being made for another 12 months. And when we're talking about workers at their wits' end, well, what about the Cadia Mine near Orange? 

Now the Minister is facing a big decision about approving a new tailings dam at this mine near Orange. So Newmont, the operator, has applied to extend operations to 2050 and build the dam. Now the approval is critical, because without the approval of the tailings dam, the mine could shut by 2031.

Well, to unpack all this, joining me on the line is the Minister for the Environment, Tanya Plibersek. Minister, thank you for your time.

TANYA PLIBERSEK, MINISTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND WATER: Always a pleasure.

O'KEEFE: Fair bit going on in Canberra. Have you been getting flights lately?

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: No, no rest for the wicked as they say, Chris.

O'KEEFE: Any business class upgrades? No comment. Righto, righto. Let's talk about Cadia Mine. So, Newmont has applied to extend operations to 2050. They want a new tailings dam near Orange. Where are you at with it?

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, I got their paperwork on Monday, so we'll consider it in the same way that we consider all of these projects. I think I've mentioned to you in the past, I've approved more than 40 mining projects since becoming the Minister, I've doubled the rate of on time approvals.

Just last week, for example, we approved a huge new cobalt project near Broken Hill, it will be one of the largest producers of cobalt for batteries anywhere in the world, it will create hundreds of jobs. Of course, we understand the importance of the mining sector for Australia, but we've got to consider each project on its merits.

O'KEEFE: How long do these take generally? If you got the paperwork Monday, what can they expect, the workers and the miners there?

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Yeah. Look, it really depends a lot on the design of the project, and in a lot of cases what we've seen, the people who are suggesting the projects have gone to a lot of trouble to design projects that don't have a bad impact on the environment. I ticked off a wind farm recently in nine weeks from go to whoa, but that's pretty good for these big business projects that normally are years in the planning. But it really depends a lot on the complexity of the design.

O'KEEFE: Sure.

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: We have to be certain. Of course the jobs are important, right, but the health of the environment, the local community, what it means to generations to come, because a lot of these projects will go for, you know, 30 or 50 years, we need to be certain that they're the right project in the right place, done in the right way.

O'KEEFE: All right. Speaking of jobs v the environment, the Maugean skate, is it going to triumph over the salmon farmers in Macquarie Harbour?

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, the salmon farming, as you know, is continuing. We are strong supporters of the Tasmanian salmon industry; we know it's an important jobs generator.  We also want to make sure that the environment that is so important to Tasmanians and to the Tasmanian economy that relies a lot on tourism is protected at the same time.

We had this conversation last time I talked to you. I think we can find a balance here. We're doing a lot of good work with the salmon industry to clean up the water in Macquarie Harbour, we've got a really great - 

O'KEEFE: Okay. So why did you need another 12 months?

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: - breeding program. Well, the independent scientific committee that John Howard set up has asked me for more time to determine whether the skate is endangered or critically endangered, and I've agreed to that request. It's a very sensible request because there's constantly new information coming in, including from the salmon industry themselves, about the conservation status.

This is, the skate is a really - it's actually worth saying to your listeners, this is an animal that's been around for about 60 million years. Like it's like - 

O'KEEFE: Yeah, I know.

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: - wandering through the forest -

O'KEEFE: Does it make any -

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: - and finding dinosaurs and saying -

O'KEEFE: I know, but does it make me cold -

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: - oh, well, it doesn't really matter what happens.

O'KEEFE: Does it make me cold-hearted to say will anyone miss it?

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Look, I understand why people say that, I really do, because I get   yeah, like I've been to Strahan plenty of times, it's a fantastic community. I know the salmon industry's a really important employer there. I get why some people would think that, but if you were wandering through the Tasmanian forest and you found, you thought the Tasmanian Tiger's extinct, but here we are, we've found one lost colony left of them  

O'KEEFE: Yeah, but it's not -

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: - you understand why other people would say, "Hang on a minute" -

O'KEEFE: - the Tasmanian Tiger, it's a fish.

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Yeah, it's a dinosaur fish. Like it's been around since dinosaur times.

O'KEEFE: It looks dreadful.

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: It's not pretty, I have to agree with you that it's not pretty.

O'KEEFE: I just think that - I think 50 per cent of the economy, if it relies on salmon farming in Macquarie Harbour should trump the Maugean skate.

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, I think the salmon industry is a really important employer in Tasmania, but so is the environment. You know that it's a huge employer in Tasmania. Macquarie Harbour's partly in the World Heritage Wilderness Area, we need to protect the environment too, even for economic reasons.

Like if you don't care at all about the skate, right, if you're one of those people who says, "It's a fish, who cares?" I think it's still worth caring about the jobs that depend on the environment.

O'KEEFE: All right. Let's move on to the Greens. You and I both have the same view on the Greens. However, I will say this: I wasn't completely opposed to their idea, albeit I'm sure that it's unaffordable, for mental health care to be covered by Medicare. Now, is there any way that a Federal Labor Government instead of the 10 trips to the psychologist a year under a mental health plan, or whether or not the mental health care, given how much of a burden it is on society, could be covered more fulsomely via Medicare? 

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Yeah, we definitely need to increase access to mental health services. The first thing we need to do is expand the mental health workforce. Like if the Greens made mental health support free tomorrow, we wouldn't have enough psychologists to deliver the services, so -

O'KEEFE: We're already don't for the ones we need now, right?

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Exactly, yeah. So, what we're doing is expanding a whole range of services, we're establishing 61 Medicare mental health centres where you will be able to walk in and get free support that's confidential, safe and inclusive. We're making sure that we build the medical workforce to support that. We're setting up special services for perinatal mental health centres, special kids' hubs, you know, the wonderful Headspace program for young people, we're expanding that to 173 Headspace centres across the country. We're returning that ability to have bulk billed video telehealth psychiatry consultations, which is so important for people living in regional areas.

So, we're doing a range of things to make mental health services more available to more Australians, but we have to build that over time because, as I say, if you said, "Everybody can have mental health, as many supports as they wanted tomorrow", we wouldn't have the psychologists and psychiatrists that we needed to do that.

O'KEEFE: Understood, but you know, I was listening to someone the other day, and they're talking about the stigma of going to see a psychiatrist or a psychologist or a counsellor, and they were trying to smash the stigma by saying, "Well, you know, if you broke your arm you'd go to the doctor". Well, if you're struggling with depression, and you should then go to see a psychologist or a psychiatrist, if you can't afford it, Minister, you're not going to go. So I just think  

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Yeah, and -

O'KEEFE: - as much as I understand how ridiculous the Greens' policy is terms of affordability of it, is there a pathway whereby maybe that is the goal, albeit a bold one?

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Hundred per cent. So the 61 Medicare mental health centres will be walk in and free, and we're also setting up an online and over the phone national early intervention service that advice will be free, and it will be, like I say, if it's online or over the phone, I don't think there should be any stigma at all to seeking help. I think it's a brave thing to do and the right thing to do -

O'KEEFE: I'd do it.

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: - for yourself and your family. Yeah, of course, I think   most people I know have had counselling at different times in their lives that have helped them through tough periods. I certainly did after my brother died, I'm not embarrassed to say that for a second, and it was critical.

But for some people, either they find it hard to get to a service, or because they are worried that online and telephone service will be available to them as well.

We do need to expand these supports; we're doing that as a government. Once again, you know, the Greens just think you can click your fingers and the magic happens, and you know, you don't have to plan the workforce or get any of those things in line. I wish it was as easy as that.

O'KEEFE: All right, Minister, I appreciate you coming on. All the best.

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Always a pleasure to talk to you, Chris. Thanks very much.