Doorstop interview Murray Darling Basin Ministerial Council Meeting with Minister for the Environment and Water Tanya Plibersek

MINISTER FOR ENVIRONMENT AND WATER, TANYA PLIBERSEK: I want to say how delighted I am with the progress of the Murray-Darling Basin Ministers Meeting today. The water minister meeting was very successful and I'm very pleased that states and the ACT came to the table with such a spirit of good will and cooperation.

I'm very pleased with today's progress because at today's meeting we reconfirmed the determination of the Commonwealth government and states and the ACT to deliver on the Murray-Darling Basin Plan. 

We discussed at length the fact that the plan is more important than ever to date. Right now across the Basin we see a lot of communities that are actually struggling with too much water we're in the unusual situation of dealing with overflowing dams and flooding in a number of communities. But one of the things that we know, for sure in Australia is as sure as it's wet today, it will be dry tomorrow. And what we know about the science of climate change is it tells us that in future droughts will be longer, more frequent and more extreme. 

We need to get the Murray-Darling Basin Plan right. The reasons we developed the Plan ten years ago, are even more acute now. So I'm very pleased today that Murray-Darling Basin Ministers recommitted to achieving the plan in full.

We also saw significant progress today on agreement towards a partnership on water market reforms. We know that the water market now is a multi-billion dollar market and we know that it has been beset by poor behaviour, people acting in unethical ways with no real way of even checking that, let alone regulating that. We've seen some excellent work done on the implementation roadmap to implement recommendations made by the ACCC and I'm very pleased that state and territory ministers have agreed that we will progress that work as well.

We made substantial progress today also on delivering on First Nations water commitments. $40 million was set aside in 2018 to deliver First Nations water entitlements. The previous government made no progress on this, we are determined to see First Nations water for cultural, economic, spiritual, environmental and other uses. At the moment on Australia about 0.2 per cent of water entitlements are held by First Nations peoples and we've got to do better on that.

The final thing I was delighted to see progress on was agreement that we need to do much better on data, modelling and science when it comes to understanding the full implications that climate change will have on Basin communities and environments in coming years.

We know a lot more about the impact climate change will have on water resources ten years down the track in the Murray-Darling Basin Plan and we need to take account of that. It's actually just going to get harder, water resources I know doesn't feel like it now but in the long term water resources will experience more pressure, be even more scarce. We need to take account of that in the science as we move forward together on the implementation of the Murray-Darling Basin Plan.

The overarching message of today's meeting is the Albanese Government is absolutely determined to deliver on the Murray-Darling Basin Plan in full. We are delighted with the cooperative attitude of the states and territories. No doubt, there will be tough times ahead on some of these issues that we need to negotiate but the spirit that all ministers brought to the table today was the spirit of collaboration and creativity that will serve us in good stead when it comes to delivering on the Murray-Darling Basin Plan.

We are, as a Federal Government, determined to do that and it's very encouraging to receive feedback from states and territories that they share that commitment. Any questions.

JOURNALIST: Minister, was there any agreement on delivering the 450 gigalitres by June 2024 and does that involve lifting the cap on water buy-backs?

PLIBERSEK: We know that delivering on the 450 gigalitres of additional environmental water that was a condition for South Australia signing onto the Murray-Darling Basin Plan is a challenge. I inherited the situation where two gigalitres of 450 had been achieved. Two out of 450 gigalitres achieved in nine years. So it's going to be tough. We know that some of those timelines are very difficult, and we've got a work program between now and the next ministers meeting which will be early next year that will flesh out how we intend to deliver on those targets. But deliver we must. 

We made a commitment 10 years ago for very good reason, the Murray-Darling Basin was in crisis and since that decision 10 years ago we've seen further extreme periods of drought. During those extreme periods of drought particularly 2018-19, we were able to release some water to keep the rivers flowing, to protect wildlife, to support regional communities to see water flowing through their towns again made such a difference during the dry periods not just for the natural environment but for the livelihoods and the way of life in communities right along the river system. We were able to keep the Murray mouth flowing into the ocean in all but the very worst years over the last decade. And again, the environmental impact of that cannot be underestimated. 

We have come along a long way in the delivery of the Murray-Darling Basin Plan, I think it's important to acknowledge that states and territories have worked hard on the progress that's been made to date but we will not rest until the full plan is delivered. And that of course includes the 450 gigalitres of additional environmental water. One at a time.

JOURNALIST: Do you acknowledge that the Water Act stipulates that the Basin Plan needs to be completed by the end of 2024?

PLIBERSEK: Yes. I think the timeframe challenges were certainly something that our Ministers discussed both last night in our private meeting and today in the ministers meeting. We know it's tough. Nobody is going to pretend, the 450 gigalitres we inherited a situation after nine years of Liberal National Government, where 2 gigalitres out of 450 have been delivered. We know that a number of projects have been delayed, some of those actually delayed because the reason that we've got too much water on the land at the moment to do some of the building projects, infrastructure projects that are required. It's going to be tough and we've got to have a plan for getting to those targets because we can't afford to let the Murray-Darling Basin Plan languish in the way that it has been doing.

We have had close to a decade of deliberate undermining of sabotaging of the Murray-Darling Basin Plan. That's changed. That's changed because we've got a new Federal Government. There is a strong spirit of cooperation between state and territory ministers. A number of those ministers are new themselves and I'm very hopeful that we'll see swift progress. In fact, since coming to government, we have contracted more water towards that 450 than the previous government delivered in nine years.

JOURNALIST: Have any of the state ministers told you your pre-election promises could not be met? And will the extra water for the environment come at the expense of agricultural production?

PLIBERSEK: State ministers have been very clear that the timeframes are challenging and we will have to continue to talk about the delivery of those projects. I'm very open to those conversations but I have been equally clear with state ministers what's not up for negotiation is our full delivery of the Murray-Darling Basin Plan. We absolutely have to get there. I've said on more than one occasion I am flexible about how we get there but we will have to get there.

JOURNALIST: Minister you said multiple times there was agreement to deliver the plan in full, I might be reading into it too much, but it seems on time was carefully left out. Was that deliberate?

PLIBERSEK: I'm being very clear. We will have to deliver the plan in full and the timeframes are challenging. I think I've been saying that the timeframes are challenging now for four months. Since coming into government, since seeing the Water for the Environment Special Account report that was once again kept secret by the previous government, it's become clearer and clearer that I'm not just inheriting neglect, I'm inheriting deliberate sabotage of the Murray-Darling Basin Plan. It's going to take a while to fix that. I'm not going to pretend otherwise. It would be irresponsible of me to pretend otherwise. The other thing I have consistently said is that all measures are on the table. 

We are asking Basin officials to work over December and January and come back to us early next year with a clear plan on how we're going to deliver on the objectives of the plan as a whole.

JOURNALIST: Is that all measures being on the table, does that include federal intervention and actually going into buy-backs if the states can't come up with a plan?

PLIBERSEK: Well I'm not going to start making threats after what was really a very cooperative and collaborative meeting. But I have to say, I see that voluntary buy-backs in a strategic way can be very beneficial. We heard today from a fantastic project in NSW that has been undertaken by the Nari Nari Tribal Council in collaboration with the Nature Conservancy and a number of other partners. It shows the incredible economic benefits, environmental benefits and other benefits that strategic use of water can provide. It's a terrific project, if you haven't seen it you should look it up. With a little bit of creativity and a lot of good will, I think we will achieve great things in this area. And I was very clear with ministers that we are the ones with responsibility now for delivering on the Plan that all of our jurisdictions signed up to a decade ago. Yes, the easy stuff is done. Yes, we're at the pointy end of delivering the Plan. Nobody is under any illusions about that. It's not going to be easy, it's going to be tough. But we absolutely have to do it, we have a window of opportunity now, we've got too much water in the system in many places now, it's causing its own destruction and difficulties for many regional communities at the moment. But Australia is the driest inhabited continent on Earth. Climate change is just going to exacerbate those challenges. We have to get on with the job now.

JOURNALIST: Will the Federal Government fund the $40 million for First Nations water in the upcoming October budget?

PLIBERSEK: That $40 million has never been in doubt, it's 100 per cent going to be there and we're just doing consultations with First Nations Communities and others to make sure that we are investing it in the best possible way that is responsible and long term. I should say, there's been a great deal of consultation on this already, years of talk frankly, years of talk, not much progress. I don't anticipate that the further consultation will be particularly difficult but it's pretty widely held views by stakeholders, everybody knows that this is the way forward here we just need to balance out the need for speed with the need for proper, thorough, respectful consultation.

JOURNALIST: I was just wondering if you're all in furious agreement, where is everyone?

PLIBERSEK: Well the meeting wasn't in Parliament House, it was at the hotel down the road so I've just walked back from the hotel to meet you all here and the others have probably gone to the airport.

JOURNALIST: NSW is working on getting the price of gas down, would you support new gas - 

PLIBERSEK: Sorry just before we go to gas is that another Murray-Darling Basin question?

JOURNALIST: Yeah. Did NSW and Victoria ask for a formal extension on delivering the water efficiency projects?

PLIBERSEK: NSW and Victoria have been explicit about the fact that they find these timeframes challenging. And none of this is a mystery, none of this is a surprise and it comes at least in part as a result of the fact that the previous federal government spent its time undermining the plan, sabotaging it, rather than getting on with it. I cannot tell you how much brown tape the previous government introduced into the implementation of the plan deliberately to slow any water buy-backs or efficiency projects off-farm, on-farm. I mean, essentially the position of the previous government is you can't do buy-backs, you can't do off-farm efficiency projects, you can't do on-farm efficiency projects, there wasn't really much left. It was an environment where even with the best will in the world, states and other stakeholders found it very difficult to make progress. Even in the projects where there was otherwise broad agreement. The environment has changed now, the states and the ACT have a partner in the Commonwealth Government that shares the determination with them to see the Murray-Darling Basin Plan implemented in full.

JOURNALIST: Sorry just one more on Murray-Darling, acknowledging the challenges with the timeline, does that mean that you are willing to be flexible on that 2024 deadline?

PLIBERSEK: I'm actually determined to implement the Plan in full. I am pushing for 2024 implementation but I am acknowledging that it's hard to get there. Now, we need a pathway to getting to the full implementation of the Murray-Darling Basin Plan. I have to take into account realistically what states and territories are saying to me. But I'm not taking my foot off the accelerator just yet.

JOURNALIST: The NSW Government is working on getting the price of gas down, did you support or do you think it's realistic that we could have new major gas developments in Australia or do you think that where things are heading do you think that's unrealistic? Do you think the answer is more about how we best utilise our current pipeline?

PLIBERSEK: I'm not going to engage in hypotheticals about gas projects. If there are individual projects that come to me for assessment under the EPBC Act it's important that I take a case by case approach for those individual projects. I'm not going to float dispositions because that compromises my role as a potential decision maker in future gas projects.

JOURNALIST: Minister are you concerned about the prospect of South Australia launching High Court action to get a legal mandate for the 450? You just said you're flexible with the timeframe, South Australia certainly aren't so that should open the door to High Court action, what are you going to do to try and avoid that?

PLIBERSEK: South Australia played an excellent and constructive role today. I had very good meetings with the South Australian Deputy Premier and Water Minister, Susan Close from the time I took over this portfolio. She is absolutely committed to seeing that 450 gigalitres that was the condition for South Australia signing onto the Plan, seeing that delivered. We were actually down at the Murray mouth the other day and the Coorong and the lower lakes having a look at you know, what it looks like when that area is in relatively good condition. But of course, there is still a great deal to be achieved to really protect that very previous environment as the river Murray closing to the ocean.
The South Australian Deputy Premier played a very good role in today's meeting as I said, she is determined to see the 450 gigalitres delivered as well as the rest of the Plan. We've made good progress on the rest of the plan but we're not quite there yet on other areas of water recovery that we need to undertake and she like other water ministers agreed collaboratively that we would move this forward. There's no suggestion for a moment that South Australia's priorities have changed. The thing that really has changed is that the states and the ACT have a partner in the Commonwealth Government who wants to see the Plan finalised rather than see the plan derailed.

JOURNALIST: Just on that brown tape you mentioned, so South Australia's formally withdrawn their support for the socioeconomic testing for the 450, that WESA report also said it would be impossible to get all 450 with that socioeconomic testing and Federal Labor wants to try and deliver this Plan in full and it sounds like on time. With all that in mind, doesn't it make more sense for the Federal Government to also walk away from that socioeconomic test?

PLIBERSEK: I think any government worth its weight will always take into account the social impacts and the economic impacts of implementing the Murray-Darling Basin Plan. The South Australian Government will take into account the social impacts, the economic impacts for South Australians, as will the NSW Government, as will the Victorians, as will the Queenslanders, as will the ACT. All of them of course will look at the social and economic impacts of delivering on the Murray-Darling Basin Plan in full. 

There's a couple of things I want to say. A number of the approaches undertaken by the previous federal government have been criticised for being overly bureaucratic. I'm convinced that they were introduced not to facilitate delivery of the Plan but to prevent it. There's no way that we're going to just join in with the same old approach that has stymied the progress to date. Of course, we need to change what we're doing. If we don't change what we're doing, we're going to keep getting the same results and the same results are just not good enough.

The second thing I wanted to say is that when it comes to socioeconomic impacts of some of the measures on the Murray-Darling Basin Plan. We've seen some amazing, amazing benefits of returning water to the river system for nature. We've seen some incredible social and economic benefits, particularly for towns, in areas like tourism for example. We know that we need to be creative, we need to be open-minded, we need to be open to new ideas, we need to be cooperative. I'm convinced we can deliver on the Plan but we actually can't just trundle along the way we've been going, we need to bring a sense of urgency and a preparedness to change. Thank you all.

ENDS