Sky News interview with Minister for the Environment and Water Tanya Plibersek

SUBJECTS: Climate Change Bill, State of the Environment report, Murray-Darling Basin Plan, Uluru Statement from the Heart

PETER STEFANOVIC, HOST: Well let's go back to Canberra now and joining us live is the Environment Minister Tanya Plibersek.  Minister, good morning to you. 

TANYA PLIBERSEK, MINISTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND WATER: Good morning. 

STEFANOVIC: So Labor is to make it harder for government agencies to spend public money on coal and gas projects, is that the last olive branch that you'll give to the Greens? 

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well we know that our economy is changing really fundamentally. Around the world countries are investing more in renewable energy and Australia can be a renewable energy superpower. We've got to make sure we've got the back‑up power, we've got to make sure we've got our transmission lines upgraded so the renewables can go into our national energy grid. But that is the long‑term solution because we know renewables are cheaper. There's a reason that millions of Australians have got solar panels on their roofs. They're not ideologues, they just want cheaper power and that's what we've got to do with our national grid as well. 

STEFANOVIC: But in terms of trying to get the Greens on board are you done with that now, have you gone as far as you can go? 

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well it's up to the Minister ‑‑

STEFANOVIC: Sure.

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: ‑‑ for Climate Change and Energy to conclude the negotiations with the Greens, but I'd say this: we are going to keep the promises that we made to the Australian people at the last election. We promised that we would move to zero net emissions and that we would set a 43 per cent target on the way to zero net emissions. That's what we're going to do.

STEFANOVIC: Greens still want that climate trigger included, should it? 

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well what they're talking about is changing our environmental laws so that a project can be stopped because it might add to greenhouse gas emissions. And it is important that we update our environmental legislation. The previous government got a review from Professor Graeme Samuel a couple of years ago that made very clear that our environmental laws are just not fit for purpose. They're not fit for the needs of business, they are slow, they are cumbersome, they often duplicate what's happening at a state level, but they're also not protecting our environment. 
The State of the Environment Report last week showed us that our environment is bad, it's been getting worse and it's on track to get even worse still. So we need to upgrade our laws and we've got a mapped-out plan to do that. 

STEFANOVIC: Sure.

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: We'll respond first to Professor Graeme Samuel's review and then we'll draft legislation then. The Greens are welcome ‑‑

STEFANOVIC: Yeah.

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: ‑‑ to make submissions on what those laws should look like, but I have to say Professor Samuel didn't recommend an environmental trigger. He said that the laws that relate to carbon pollution and emissions reductions and climate change, that's the proper place for making those decisions.

STEFANOVIC: Okay, so you'd be inclined to follow him? 

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, you know, I'm going to take my time and do it properly. The amazing thing about what Professor Samuel came up with is he got environmental groups on one hand and business groups on the other hand to agree to the vast bulk of the changes that he was suggesting to our environmental laws. I think that's a really good starting point. 

STEFANOVIC: Okay. You've got a bunch of requests on your desk at the moment regarding approvals for coal and gas projects that are now facing fresh legal challenges on climate grounds. Are you going to knock any of them back? 

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well I'm going to make a decision ‑ any time anything comes before me for decision I'll make a case-by-case decision based on the information before me and the laws as they currently stand. Now like I said, the laws are not ideal. They're pretty complex and not really fit for purpose but that's what I'm bound by as the Minister at the moment, and I will make a decision on a case-by-case basis. Some projects stack up environmentally, some don't and I'll decide based on what's before me.

STEFANOVIC: Right. So you would knock them back? 

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well I'm not talking about the projects that are before me at the moment. I'm saying hypothetically if there are projects that stack up environmentally then they pass, if they don't then they don't.

STEFANOVIC: Would you be worried about business confidence, what that would lead to in terms of business confidence if you were to knock any back? 

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well projects have been stopped at environmental approvals in the past. You know, that's not the first time this will ever happen. This has happened throughout the history of the Commonwealth environmental laws, and it's happened at a State level as well. There are things that we need to consider, environmental issues that we need to consider including, you know, access to drinking water for our communities as well.

STEFANOVIC: Yes.

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: But, you know, as a Minister I'm not going to start, you know, it's the vibe, I'm thinking this, I'm thinking that. No, I mean this gets decided on a case-by-case basis based on the scientific evidence before me, based on the law as it stands.

STEFANOVIC: Alright. The Murray‑Darling Basin plan, the deadline to recover water from the agriculture meant for the environment, are you going to extend that? 

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: I'm looking at the moment at whether we can meet that target date of 2024 for the 450 additional gigalitres of water that's supposed to be released to the environment.  I'm looking at every option. Every option is on the table to get to that target. But can I say in almost a decade, the previous government returned two of those 450 gigalitres for environmental uses, for South Australia in particular. So in almost ten years the previous government got two gigalitres out of 450 that they promised. We've got a 2024 deadline to get the other 448 gigalitres. It's challenging. I'm not going to pretend it's not.

STEFANOVIC: Not going to happen.

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, no, no. I'm not saying, I'm not saying that at all. We are looking at every measure that's on the table at the moment. One of the big changes is the previous government didn't want to get there, and in fact they've got a Water Minister at the moment who's very clear that she doesn't think this is a priority. So this is a commitment in the Murray‑Darling Basin plan, it's the reason South Australia signed on to the Murray‑Darling Basin plan. It's promised, it's part of the plan. We will deliver it. The big difference is there's now a government that wants to deliver it.  The previous government put every block in the way of meeting this target. They didn't want to deliver it. And the current Water Shadow Minister doesn't want to deliver it either. But I have to say I've had excellent conversations with state water ministers, including most particularly the South Australian Water Minister who is all over this and has had some very good suggestions about how we can get there, including in the time frame that was originally laid out. 

STEFANOVIC: Okay. Just one more, it's a bit of a pivot this one but I want to get your thoughts on it anyway. You might have heard from Jacinta Price; she had some interesting things to say last night about the Voice to Parliament. She took a shot at the Prime Minister. She says it's not a real solution, the Voice to Parliament, while you've got these six‑year‑old kids that are wandering the streets at 6 o'clock in the morning. She, you know, referred to the fact that that sort of stuff just wouldn't happen in the capital cities. Have you got any thoughts on her comments? 

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: As well as Jacinta Price making her first speech yesterday, Marion Scrymgour, who's the new member for Lingiari that covers most of the Northern Territory, about 1.3 million square kilometres.

STEFANOVIC: Yeah.

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: She made her first speech yesterday too and she talked about having to tackle alcohol abuse in some communities and what it's doing to families and communities. She made her concerns known as well. And I think this is the really important thing, you've got Jacinta Price with one proposal about how to address these really important issues, you've got Marion Scrymgour who's deeply involved in her community,she's been a public representative of her community for decades now. She's got another approach. And what a Voice to Parliament enables is for those solutions to come from the people who are most affected. Marion and Jacinta might not agree exactly on the way to proceed but having them debating and leading this discussion is so good for us. We're not going to solve these problems that have been with us for decades without listening to the people who are most affected. And so I'm really proud that Marion Scrymgour, the new member for Lingiari, will be leading that discussion for Labor in the Northern Territory.

STEFANOVIC: Is it also ‑‑

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Along with Malarndirri McCarthy.

STEFANOVIC: Sure.

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Of course, along with our Senator Malarndirri McCarthy.

STEFANOVIC: Is it also an indicator of how difficult it's going to be, it's not a fait accompli basically that you're going to get this achieved because it's so complex? 

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Yeah, I think the referendum will be something that we will need to convince many Australians of, but what we are saying is the Uluru Statement from the Heart has vast support from Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Australians. Jacinta Price might not agree with it. She's perfectly entitled to her view. But it is well supported, and it is a really important way for people who are affected by policies to have their say about those policies. All of us would expect the same right that if government is legislating something that has a critical influence on our lives that we would have a say about those policies. That's what a Voice to Parliament is all about. 

STEFANOVIC: Okay. Tanya Plibersek, the Environment Minister. Thank you for your time, Minister, we'll talk to you soon.

END