Sky News interview with Minister for the Environment and Water Tanya Plibersek

LAURA JAYES, HOST: The Environment Minister Tanya Plibersek joins us live now. Thanks so much for your time. Renewable energy is still contentious, and it has been that way, climate policy, for around 20 years. This election is going to be no different. There are big questions now about this claim that we often hear that renewables will be cheaper. Eventually that might be true, but in this interim period we’re seeing electricity prices go up, aren’t we?

TANYA PLIBERSEK, MINISTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND WATER: Well, no, actually. Electricity prices came down by 18 per cent in the year to August. That’s the biggest drop in electricity prices in Australia’s history. When we came to government electricity cost $290 a megawatt hour. The last figure I saw was $54 a megawatt hour – so 290 to 54, that’s a definite drop. And that 18 per cent drop that I referred to in household bills, that is very significant. And we know that renewable energy is the cheapest form of new energy, and we know the biggest risk to this is Peter Dutton’s expensive delay of 20 years to build nuclear reactors which would only ever supply about 4 per cent of Australia’s energy and would add over a thousand dollars to the bill of a family of four. That’s the biggest risk here.

JAYES: But nuclear would play a really important role in that 10 to 20 per cent of electricity into the grid that renewables can’t service all of the time. So what is Labor’s plan for that 10 or 20 per cent?

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, we know that gas is still going to play an important role in our peaking demand. We also obviously need batteries. And, in fact, I recently approved the largest battery in the southern hemisphere in Victoria. We know that demand management will play a role. We’ve already got 3.3 million Australian households that have got solar on the roof. It would be great to see some more battery use at a domestic level. There’s so much that we can do right now to bring down power prices rather than risking it all on the roll of the dice that in 20 years time the nuclear reactors that Peter Dutton is promising might get built.

I mean, it’s worth remembering that his nuclear reactors, the state governments where he’s proposing to build them, they don’t want them. The private owners of the land that he’s talking about building them on don’t want to sell. So how can this be a plan? Like, where are the details of Peter Dutton’s plan?

JAYES: I mean, Labor’s also spending around $50 billion on upgrading transmission lines as well. So when you talk about the cost of electricity, someone’s eventually got to pay for that $50 billion, and it’s taxpayers, perhaps not paying through their bills right now but they’re still paying for it.

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: You know what, Laura, during the nine years of the previous government they were told that 24 coal-fired power stations were going to close down. They were given the closure dates for those coal-fired power stations. If we had started this transition nine years ago or 10 years ago when this information started to come through, we’d be in a different position now.

What we’re dealing with is nine years, 22 different energy policies, the warnings that coal-fired power stations were going to close – nothing, no plans to replace them. And now this nuclear – expensive nuclear fantasy with no detail around it. We’re getting on with the job of delivering more renewable energy. I’ve ticked off 63 renewable energy projects. That’s enough to power 7 million homes. Yes, we need more transmission lines. Yes, we need firming. We need storage like batteries. But we’re getting on with it. The alternative, Peter Dutton’s risky alternative, is 20 years of delay.

JAYES: But we’ve also got an environmental problem with wind turbines and solar panels that are passed their use-by date as well. I mean, we need to have an open debate about renewables and how – I mean, yes, on balance, good for the environment and we’re meeting those emission targets by 2050. But, still, by 2030 it’s a long way off, and there are a few things that still need to be worked out, right, like that recycling?

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Yeah, you’re absolutely right and there’s a couple of things to say about that. I knocked back a wind farm because it was right next to a World Heritage area up in the wet tropics in the Daintree. You can’t just build them anywhere. We have to pick the right locations for renewable energy projects. And you’ve absolutely identified one of the big things that we need to deal with, is the solar panels that are at the end of their useful life. We can repurpose some of them, so, you know, car batteries, for example, for domestic use is something that people are looking at. But those solar panels need to be recycled. They’re full of valuable materials, full of valuable metals, and we need a greater domestic recycling capacity for those in Australia. And absolutely the industry is working with us and looking at options for that.

JAYES: Okay. Let me ask you about a few other things: Lidia Thorpe swearing allegiance to the Queen at the time and her hairs – perhaps it’s a compliment on her great do. Now there are kind of questions from the Coalition about whether her oath of allegiance is actually valid. What do you think? Should this be further pursued?

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Yeah, look, I’m not a lawyer; I don’t know what the legal interpretation of this is. She did also sign a document that clearly said “heirs” with an “e”, not an “a”. But I mean, the whole thing really reminds me of when you say to the kids, “Why did you break that promise,” and they say, “Oh, I had my fingers crossed behind my back.” People will make their own judgments about the maturity and the ethical position here, I think.

I don’t know, if you get elected on the ticket of one political party and then you walk away from that party and particularly in this case where Senator Thorpe seems to see our democratic institutions as so profoundly flawed, I don’t know why you would stay. I actually don’t know why you would stay.

JAYES: Well, neither do I. I’ll ask her just after 10 o’clock this morning. I think what has been something for me that’s been an eye opener for me this week, and I wonder if you agree – is the abortion debate. There was an attempt to inject this into the Queensland election campaign from Katter and One Nation. Labor has tried to use it as a wedge against Crisafulli. Then there was a suggestion that this should be on the national platform, therefore, part of any campaign at a federal level. It’s been – I think to their credit, both David Littleproud and Peter Dutton have said no, it’s not on their agenda, and Coalition women have been quick to slap down the suggestion that they’re going to pursue this in any way. What is your take on how this has reared its ugly head this week?

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Look, it is largely a matter for the states and territories, abortion law. When I was Health Minister, though, I put RU486, the abortion drugs, on to the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme so that they would become more affordable, approved in Australia and more affordable. I don’t understand why Mr Crisafulli has found it so difficult to say what his position is. I mean, he’s been asked again and again and again in debates. I’m happy to say that I’m pro-choice. I think at a state level particularly where you’ve got state governments that are in charge of abortion law it’s fair enough for people to ask what the positions of the leaders are and what their intentions are –

JAYES: But this whole idea that we’re all of a sudden –

MINISTER PLIBERSEK:  If his intention is to change nothing, he should just simply say that.

JAYES: Well, to be fair, he did at the Sky News People’s Forum eventually –

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, you can shut it down, though.

JAYES: Yeah, sure, but –

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Yeah, well, I know. But he was asked how many times? 132 times or something he’s been asked. It’s not a difficult question to answer. If you’re pro-choice you’re pro-choice. If you think that abortion is wrong in every circumstance, just say that. He should just say it. It shouldn’t be a secret from the people that he’s seeking to represent.

JAYES: What do you think about this trying to be, you know, injected into some sort of US-style political debate here in Australia, creating this spectre of late-term abortions somehow being a massive issue in Australia? It’s just not.

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: It’s absolutely not. I mean, in the very rarest of circumstances when there are very serious health issues involved, someone might have an abortion later in their term. And I can tell you, in every instance the medical personnel would be so very careful in these circumstances. It’s a traumatic choice for most women. Even earlier term abortions for many women are very difficult choices, very difficult times in their lives. And for it to be kind of kicked around as a political football in this way I think is distressing. It’s unnecessary certainly, but it’s also distressing for many, many people.

JAYES: Yeah, it certainly is. And if it is distressing for you, you know, there are services that you can contact, and we encourage you to do that. Tanya, great to talk to you. Thanks so much.

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Thanks, Laura.

END