Interview with Ali Moore, ABC Melbourne Drive

ALI MOORE, HOST: Senator Murray Watt is a Federal Minister. He is the Minister for Environment and Water. Senator Watt, welcome back to Drive.

MURRAY WATT, MINISTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND WATER: Hi, Ali. Good to be with you again.

ALI MOORE: A collective sigh of relief this morning was there, that all went well in Washington?

MURRAY WATT: I think it was a very positive meeting, Ali. Clearly there was a lot of warmth between the two leaders on a personal level, not surprising given the conversations they'd had previously.

But more importantly, I think there were some really positive developments for Australia, particularly as it relates to critical minerals investment and producing those kind of rare earths that we need for so much renewable energy and other products. And of course some really reassuring comments about AUKUS as well. So I don't think, really, the meeting could have gone much better.

ALI MOORE: I'll come back to those two things, but how did you see the dig at Kevin Rudd?

MURRAY WATT: I thought it was a tongue-in-cheek remark. You know, there was lots of laughter going on as it was being made. And I think the real test here is the results that have come from this meeting, including all of the work leading up to it from Ambassador Rudd and his team. So, you know, he and his team have got to take some credit for the achievements at this meeting, and I think we can all take a joke and that's the spirit in which it was dealt.

ALI MOORE: Yeah, and I take that. Because watching it, it does seem to have been in good humour. But Kevin Rudd reportedly, once the cameras left the room, apologised to the President. What was he apologising for if it was all in good humour?

MURRAY WATT: I think he was probably just being polite. And, you know, you would have seen the reports that the President said after that that all was forgiven. I think it was probably just a bit of light-hearted banter. So as I say, I mean, I think it's good that you can have these sort of friendly conversations and have a bit of a dig at each other. What really matters is the outcomes of the meeting, and they were unreservedly positive.

ALI MOORE: You're listening to Senator Murray Watt. We're talking about the meeting that took place in the White House in the early hours of this morning. Senator Watt, as you said, critical minerals deal - it's an $8.5 billion deal. This is what Donald Trump said about it.

[Excerpt plays]

ALI MOORE: What exactly does that mean, Murray Watt, and what does this deal mean?

MURRAY WATT: What it's about Ali is really taking advantage of the incredible resources that Australia has in these rare earths and critical minerals, many of which people probably haven't even heard of before, but are vital to developing the sort of new technology that our economy is based on. These sorts of minerals find their way into all sorts of electronic and technology that we rely on, whether it be iPhones or other forms of technology. They're used in renewable energy as well.

And Australia is blessed to have what people often call a periodic table beneath our earth - all sorts of minerals that are rare around the world, but the kind of economy that we're building internationally is very reliant on. They offer immense opportunities to Australia, both in terms of future exports, but also jobs. You know, we want to -

ALI MOORE: Yeah, but what does this deal mean? We know we've got them, although we haven't really got them out of the ground. What does the deal mean?

MURRAY WATT: What it will see is joint investment by the Australian Government, the US Government and private industry to develop these resources. Some of them take place in very remote locations and there's a lot of investment required to get them out of the ground and processed.

But also what it does is develop a market for these resources once they are processed in the United States, which is a very big consumer of them. So, it's a really good way of not just getting those earths out of the ground and processed, but also making sure that they find their way into the types of equipment and technology that need them.

ALI MOORE: Of course, this whole thing has been prompted by China, which is the world's biggest supplier and has just announced that it is cutting back exports even further of critical minerals. That prompted Donald Trump to threaten even higher tariffs, but could this agreement with the US cause issues for our relationship with China?

MURRAY WATT: I don't think it has to, Ali. And certainly what we’ve-

ALI MOORE: But it could.

MURRAY WATT: Look, it's obviously a matter for different governments how they react to things. But this framework is all about strengthening that relationship between Australia and the US. We've said that it's not aimed at any particular country.

But we recognise for the world economy to work best, we do need diverse supply chains. I mean, it's only a few years ago that we saw the difficulty that can emerge through COVID with having limited supply chains for particular resources. And it's not healthy for the world economy to have any one nation, whoever they might be, have an almost total monopoly on a particular resource or product.

So, it's a good thing, I think, that we can have those sorts of diverse supply chains with multiple options available. And it's even better that Australia can be such a central player in those supply chains.

ALI MOORE: You're listening to the Minister for Environment and Water, Senator Murray Watt. Senator Watt, let's go to your portfolio. When are we going to see a national environment protection agency?

MURRAY WATT: Well, once we pass the bill, I guess, Ali, is the answer to that question. What I've said all along since coming into this portfolio is that we want these reforms to be built on three pillars – stronger environmental protections, quicker approval processes for things like housing and renewable energy, and also more transparency around the decisions we make regarding the environment. And it's really that third pillar where the EPA comes in.

We don't currently have a national EPA. We don't have a national watchdog to really ensure that business is held to account around the way it interacts with the environment, and that's what delivering a national EPA will do. We have EPAs at the state level in pretty much every state and territory around the country, but not at the national level.

But of course, the first task is to pass these laws, and that's why I've had so many different consultation sessions - I think I'm up to about 80 since coming into the role with everyone from conservation groups to industry groups. I've met now three times with the Coalition spokesperson and the Greens spokesperson, some really productive discussions happening there.

But of course, we will be introducing this bill in the next sitting fortnight, and we'd like to see it passed as quickly as we can so that we can get an EPA and get all of those environmental benefits that come with it.

ALI MOORE: I also note, though, that you're beginning consultations on the draft bill this week. I assume from that, given you've already had so many consultations, this is essentially, you can have a look, this is what it is, but it's locked and loaded?

MURRAY WATT: Look, there's still the opportunity to make some changes to the bill. I mean, realistically, given the time frame we're working towards, there won't be an enormous opportunity to make wholesale changes to the bill that we introduce. But I'm realistic enough to accept that there will need to be some amendments in the process. I mean, I don't know that I ever see a bill go through the Senate without some form of amendments.

But more broadly, we don't expect stakeholders to be particularly shocked by what they see in the detail of the bill, because we have undertaken so much consultation around the policy positions. And let's remember, this comes after nearly five years of work. It's nearly five years since Graeme Samuel tabled his report for the former Environment Minister, Sussan Ley. There's been a lot of work undertaken since then, and we've been fairly clear in settling the policy positions that are now reflected in that bill and that gives me some confidence that we can move through this reasonably quickly.

ALI MOORE: You did say that you've been consulting with both the Coalition and also with the Greens. Are you putting your eggs with the Liberals to get this through the Upper House?

MURRAY WATT: No. I've said all along that we are open to passing these laws with the support of either the Coalition or the Greens. And I don't rule out the possibility that we can get both of them to vote for it because there's actually really good things in this for the environment from the Greens' perspective. There's really good things in this bill for business from the Coalition perspective.

When it comes to the environment we will, for the first time, be including in the national environmental law a requirement on project developers to avoid and minimise their environmental impacts from their projects. And if they do still have impacts, then they're going to have to restore nature to be in a better position than what it was when they came across it. We're going to be, for the first time, having strong national environmental standards that make very clear expectations of what standards projects will need to meet in order to get approved.

And of course, from a business point of view, there's a lot in this bill about reducing the level of duplication we see between the federal and state processes for assessing and approving projects so that we can deliver the homes, the renewable energy, the other economic projects that we need as a country.

So, I think that people will be pleasantly surprised when they see the bill about the changes that we're putting forward, and the fact that they do deal with both of those environmental issues and business issues as well.

ALI MOORE: Senator Murray Watt, though, as you said yourself, this has been going for such a long time - others have tried and failed. Can you really make everyone happy? Can it really be a win-win?

MURRAY WATT: I absolutely think that it can, Ali. Unfortunately, a lot of the time we see the debate about the environment in Australia degenerate into this binary argument that you can only have good environmental outcomes or good business outcomes. It's actually possible to have both.

So, we just need to be a bit creative here. And there are ways that we can make sure that our national environmental law is a win for the environment and is a win for the business and the broader community. I absolutely think we can do that.

ALI MOORE: Senator Murray Watt, thanks so much for joining us.

MURRAY WATT: Thanks, Ali.

ALI MOORE: Senator Murray Watt there, Minister for Environment and Water.