Interview with Andrew Clennell – Sky News Sunday Agenda

ANDREW CLENNELL, HOST: Joining me is the Albanese Government's newly sworn in Environment Minister, Murray Watt. Thanks for joining us. Let me start by asking about your intentions in terms of what's been called the Nature Positive Bill and the setting up of a Commonwealth EPA. In some states, the EPA can give advice but doesn't make a final decision on projects. Tanya Plibersek wanted a final decision made by them. Are you going to change the Plibersek proposal so EPA doesn't get the final say?

MURRAY WATT, MINISTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND WATER: Well, g' day, Andrew, and good to be with you. Obviously, it's very early days in my tenure in this role and I'll be consulting widely about all of these issues. I think what we did see at the election was a strong endorsement from the Australian people for Labor's approach, which is to protect the environment and protect jobs. That's the way I'm going to be approaching this job. Obviously, we do need to protect our environment, not only because of the health and environmental benefits that that provides, but there's a range of industries in Australia that rely on a healthy industry, a healthy environment, to be able to deliver the jobs and economic benefits that we need in terms of the reforms, as I say, I've really just started beginning consultations on that. And you will have seen I'll be travelling to Perth this week to meet with representatives of the WA Government, including Premier Cook, mining, environmental representatives, business representatives as well. I'm not locking myself in at this point to an exact model of an EPA, but I'll be very interested to hear the range of views that are being put forward.

ANDREW CLENNELL: But this is what WA wants, isn't it? I mean, if you're meeting miners, if you're meeting the state governments, you want to swagger seats there, won't you be looking, aren't you at least looking at that prospect that perhaps the EPA might just provide advice, not make the decision?

MURRAY WATT: Well, we did go to the election committing and recommitting, in fact, to having an independent EPA, and we need such a body with teeth to be able to assist in protecting our environment. But in terms of the details around the model of that, that is something that I'll be consulting on. I think it's a little premature for me to be making those kind of decisions before I've had an opportunity to meet with a range of interest groups on this. But I'm very hopeful based on the early calls that I've made to representatives of governments, mining groups, business groups, environment groups, there's a lot of goodwill out there about the need to make changes to our environmental laws. If you go back to the review that Graeme Samuel did for the former coalition government, he identified that our current environmental laws aren't working for the environment or the business community. The groups that I've been speaking with from across the spectrum agree with that. They agree that change needs to be made. Of course, there are some different views about what that looks like, but my job, of course, is now to get out there, meet with everyone who's got a view on this, and bring forward a package from the government that can make its way through the Senate.

ANDREW CLENNELL: Look, my ears pricked up when you indicated that basically your second week in the job, you're going to be meeting miners, mining companies. That's an unusual approach from an Environment Minister, isn't it?

MURRAY WATT: I don't think so. I mean, whether it be Tanya Plibersek or other environment Ministers, they've always engaged in wide ranging consultations. I guess I have the benefit coming into this job of already having some strong existing networks in all of the different interest groups that want to be involved in this reform process due to the previous roles that I've had. I'm going to be open to all views in this role. Of course, I'll be listening to environment groups and I'll be meeting with a number of them this week, having spoken to some of them on the phone. But I do want to be meeting with the mining community, I do want to be meeting with the business community, because, as I say, my experience so far is that everyone across the spectrum recognises we need reform. They're committed to the task and they're committed to working with me to get that done.

ANDREW CLENNELL: Have you been put in here because you're a fixer and the Prime Minister thinks you might be a bit more reasonable and not come up with decisions like the Blayney coal mine and salmon farming?

MURRAY WATT: I'll leave it to commentators like you, Andrew, to determine why I've been put in this role and come up with different descriptions. But I guess, you know, I think my record does show that I'm someone who can bring different groups together and make decisive decisions and then get matters passed through the Senate. I did that in my agriculture role when it came to live sheep exports, which was a very controversial issue, but we got the job done there. I've done that when it comes to the CFMEU administration getting difficult, contentious legislation through the Parliament. And that's the sort of approach I'll be taking here as well. As I say, you know, I think that there's. You know, the whole Australian community recognises we need to see reform. And what I see from the community is that they want to see politicians, business groups, governments, environmental groups working together, coming up with common solutions, rather than just pitting each other at each other all the time.

ANDREW CLENNELL: Sure. Is it fair to say that the Prime Minister overruling Ms Plibersek on some of these areas that I just mentioned, like salmon farming, when she was Minister, contributed to your electoral success in Western Australia and Tasmania?

MURRAY WATT: Well, I guess the seat results demonstrate that Australians pretty much in all states supported the agenda of the Albanese Government. We are humbled by that. We're not going to get carried away with that. But clearly, if you look at the results in Tasmania in particular, with massive swings towards Labor, including in the seat of Braddon, that was a strong endorsement of the Albanese Government's approach, which is that we can protect jobs and the environment. Of course, we want to make sure when it comes to salmon, that environmental impacts are managed and are limited. But we also want to protect the jobs that are really important for those communities as well. We saw a similar approach in Western Australia. So, as I say, I think that there is a strong endorsement of Labor's approach when it comes to managing the environment. And I think we saw in the election a real rejection from the Australian people of the extreme left and right of politics, which have said that you've got to have one or the other. You know, people didn't want to see the Greens blocking environmental reform and saying no to everything equally. They didn't support the coalition's approach in saying that every single development should go through without any conditions. People want to see that middle ground where we do protect both the jobs and environment. And I think it's been demonstrated that only Labor can provide that.

ANDREW CLENNELL: I need to ask about the proposal to extend the North West Shelf gas project. You're planning to approve this, aren't you?

MURRAY WATT: I haven't made any decision at this point in time, Andrew. It would be a little bit early for me to be doing that. I've certainly had some preliminary briefings from my department about this particular project and the approval that needs to be made. It is my intention to make that decision by May 31, which is the current deadline there. I recognise this is a decision that's been taking a long time between the Western Australian government in particular and the Federal Government. So, I do want to make that decision within the current time frame. But I genuinely haven't reached a position on that. And I'll be expecting formal briefings from the department in coming days.

ANDREW CLENNELL: So, you'll have been Minister all of about two and a half weeks when you make a pretty massive decision.

MURRAY WATT: Yeah, it will be a very significant decision, Andrew, and I recognise it's one - there are really strong views on all sides and it won't be the final time that I'll need to make a decision which is contentious and that there are strong views. But what I can assure you, viewers is that every decision I make will be in accordance with the law. I'll be looking at the evidence, I'll be looking at the science, bringing an independent mind to each of these decisions and that's what I'll be doing with this one as well.

ANDREW CLENNELL: Do you have a recommendation from your department before you on this?

MURRAY WATT: Not at this point in time, Andrew. They're still finalising the paperwork for that. Yeah.

ANDREW CLENNELL: Can you admit, I suspect you can't, that this decision was delayed past the election so it wouldn't affect votes for Labor, particularly from the green flank?

MURRAY WATT: That's not my - yeah, that's not my understanding, Andrew. I mean, of course, any of these decisions about big projects like this do require an enormous amount of evidence because they're really important decisions that you want to get right. Of course, we all know that many of these decisions end up being in the courts as well, being challenged by one group or another, and that's why it is important for the Minister of the day to have a full set of evidence in front of them. My understanding is that further information and evidence was requested of some of the parties for this decision and that meant that the timeframe had to be extended. But as I say, my intention is to make this decision within the timeframe as it currently stands.

ANDREW CLENNELL: Just briefly, what sort of changes do you want to make to the EPBC Act and is it true you want to dump the term nature positive around the bill?

MURRAY WATT: Well, a couple of things there, Andrew. I mean, as I say, at this very early stage, it's a little early for me to be saying exactly what I expect to be in that legislation. But what I do want to achieve is deliver the independent EPA that we've now gone to two elections promising to deliver. But I also do want to take the opportunity to look at the act more broadly and see what reforms can be made, both to protect the environment in a better way than it currently does, but also to smooth decision making processes for business. As I say, I think everyone recognises the current laws don't achieve either of those goals and that's what I want to do. In terms of the wording and the language, you know, I haven't made any decisions about that, but the principle that I'm adopting is that I think it is important when we're talking about these issues, to use language that the average person on the street understands and can buy into. I think part of my role is about building public support and public confidence in the decisions that we make in this area and the more we can be expressing our language and our terms in ways that people understand and use themselves, I think that helps build that confidence.

ANDREW CLENNELL: There's been a lot of criticism of the government super tax. Do you expect this to pass with the help of the Greens? And what do you make of my revelations this morning that there's a lot of former state MPs and premiers and maybe even some current ones who won't have to pay this tax?

MURRAY WATT: Well, certainly it's the government's intention to pass these laws in the way that we took to the election, Andrew, and you will have seen through the campaign, it was a hotly contested issue and we have received an endorsement from the Australian people to legislate in the manner that we put forward. You know, we need to remember that this affects a very small number of people. Half of 1 per cent of superannuation holders will be affected by this. People with balances above $3 million. That's a very small part of the community. And the reality is we will be relying on that taxation revenue to help meet some of our other priorities, like lifting bulk billing rates in GP clinics and supporting people with cost of living. That money has to come from somewhere and we think this is a fair way to do that. In terms of who will be covered, of course, there is a small group of people, including the ones that you've identified today, who cannot be taxed on their superannuation under the constitution. Now, we're of course, not going to be introducing laws that are in breach of the constitution and will be struck down. But what we are planning to do, as I say, is to. Is to reduce the tax concession available for a very small number of people with extremely high superannuation balances. People will still get a concession on their superannuation. It just won't be quite as generous as it is at the moment.

ANDREW CLENNELL: I wanted to ask about the portfolio you've just left, industrial relations. The TWU boss, Michael Kaine, said in the Australian on the weekend his members would shut down Australia's transport to get better deals for his members. Now there was an opportunity to do that with Labor re-elected, what's your reaction to that?

MURRAY WATT: Well, I think we need to keep it a little bit in perspective, Andrew. I did see that story yesterday. There's a long way to go before the current enterprise agreements expire. And I think what you see from Mr Kaine is him putting forward the interests of his members. Of course, what he wants to do is to secure higher wages and better conditions for his members, as any decent union leader would be looking for. But as I say, there's a long way to go. And of course, as always, we'd be encouraging the parties to talk, to negotiate and the Fair Work Commission can be involved if needed as well.

ANDREW CLENNELL: And just finally, Oscar Jenkins, the Australian has been sentenced to 13 years jail for fighting for Ukraine. What can you tell us about this and any prospect of getting him released? That meeting between Anthony Albanese and Volodymyr Zelenskyy later today.

MURRAY WATT: Yeah. Again, this is an appalling decision from Russia and another outrage in a long line of outrages when it comes to matters involving Ukraine. We are appalled by this decision from Russia. We consider this to be a sham trial and we don't accept that Mr Jenkins should be treated this way. In our view, he should be treated as a prisoner of war. He was a member of the Ukraine Defence Forces and prisoners of war are entitled to humane treatment under international humanitarian law. We'll continue advocating for his release and for his welfare and I'm sure Prime Minister Albanese will be taking that up with the Ukrainian President today.

ANDREW CLENNELL: Murray Watt, thanks so much.

MURRAY WATT: Thanks, Andrew.