Interview with David Speers, ABC 730

DAVID SPEERS, HOST: Murray Watt is the Minister for Environment and joins me now. Minister, welcome to the program.

MURRAY WATT, MINISTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND WATER: G’day David, good to be with you.

DAVID SPEERS: So the Treasurer said his preference was for a deal with the Coalition on these environment law changes to ensure bipartisanship. This was the preference of every business group, it was the preference of the West Australian Premier as well. Why did you ignore those pleas and do a deal with the Greens instead?

MURRAY WATT: I wouldn’t say it was so much a matter of ignoring those pleas, David, but in the end we cut a deal with the group who was actually willing to do a deal and was capable of doing a deal. I’ve said myself that there would have been some benefits in being able to do a deal with the Coalition, the major parties of Government working together. But equally, what I was focused on is making sure we actually got something done. And through this deal that we’ve done with the Greens, we’ve been able to achieve the balanced package of reforms that I always said we needed. Wins for the environment, wins for business, and frankly, the Coalition have been a complete shambles throughout these negotiations and was unable to cut a deal.

DAVID SPEERS: Let me ask you this. Were you also worried that if you linked up with the Coalition, the Greens would then be accusing Labor MPs of having no credibility on the environment?

MURRAY WATT: Look, I'm sure the Greens would have said things like that, but that wasn't a factor in my decision or the Prime Minister's decision.

DAVID SPEERS: Politics didn't weigh on this at all?

MURRAY WATT: No, we were always focused on how we could deliver that balanced set of reforms that Graeme Samuel recommended five years ago and that the country needs. If the Coalition had been capable of working out what their position was and not having multiple people negotiating with different requests, maybe we would have been able to do a deal with them.

DAVID SPEERS: Okay, in fairness, they say they were negotiating with you late last night, woke up this morning, found out that you’d now stuck a deal with the Greens.

MURRAY WATT: Yeah, and we were continuing to work with the Coalition into the night last night. We were very confident by that stage that we would probably be able to get there with the Greens. But of course -

DAVID SPEERS: So you strung them along?

MURRAY WATT: No, I wouldn't say that. I mean, you always keep your options open in case something goes wrong. But even yesterday, I had a meeting with three different Coalition Shadow Ministers to try to work out what their combined position was. That is not a way to conduct a negotiation.

DAVID SPEERS: Let's go through a few specifics. The Government, we know, wants more gas. The market operator keeps telling us we need more gas, we might face a shortfall on the east coast. This is all part of your future gas strategy as well, to get more gas. And yet here you've agreed to a Greens demand blocking any fast-tracking of gas projects. Why?

MURRAY WATT: I wouldn't say that it's about blocking any fast-tracking of gas projects. But certainly -

DAVID SPEERS: So there could be some fast-tracking of gas projects?

MURRAY WATT: What we have done is block a number of new streamlined assessment pathways for coal and gas projects. However, we expect all projects - whatever they are, coal, gas, critical minerals, housing, renewables - to benefit from a range of the other reforms we're making to approval processes.

DAVID SPEERS: Well, this is interesting, this is not what the Greens are saying. So you're saying that this will deliver faster approvals for gas and coal?

MURRAY WATT: I think there is every ability for a gas project, in particular, if it has its documentation ready in the way that's required and has done their environmental surveys and all of those kind of things, to access some of the pathways that will be quicker for all projects. What it's about, though, is saying that - probably the best example is the national interest approval, which has been quite controversial, a project would be able to get an approval even if it didn't meet environmental benchmarks in rare circumstances. We were never going to use that for a coal or gas project, and we’ve said.

DAVID SPEERS: No, and you won't use the streamlined approval either. And this is what the gas industry is worried about, they’re saying this is going entrench slow approvals, drive up energy costs, deter investment, further delay the gas Australia needs. Why not fast-track gas decisions?

MURRAY WATT: Well, I mean, the reality is that we needed to secure support from one side of the Parliament or the other to get these laws through. There were a number of things the Greens asked for that we said absolutely not, we're not prepared to do that, but there were some we were prepared to entertain. Because in this instance, there are still ways, through the broader reforms that we're making to approval processes, that all projects will be able to be sped up.

DAVID SPEERS: Let me ask you about another concession to the Greens. Will your deal end native forest logging?

MURRAY WATT: Absolutely not. I know that, right now, we've got Coalition and Greens people out there claiming that is the case. It is absolutely untrue.

DAVID SPEERS: Yeah, so is the industry, so does the forestry industry.

MURRAY WATT: There are some elements of the industry, not all of the elements of industry are saying that.

DAVID SPEERS: And they're all wrong?

MURRAY WATT: Well, frankly, they are. Because I challenge any of those people to point to anything in this legislation which says that native forestry is going to end. What we are doing, as recommended by Graeme Samuel and as recommended by Robert Hill the original Liberal Minister who introduced these laws, in 1999, they all said it's a problem with the Act at the moment that forestry, under Regional Forestry Agreements, is exempted from any of the standards or any of the rules under the Act.

What we've done is say that forestry is an important industry that should continue, but it should comply with the same rules that mining does, that renewables do, that housing development do. I'm very confident the industry can meet those standards.

DAVID SPEERS: Well, the industry has a very different view. They say this is going to make them unsustainable. There's a big demand for hardwood timber still in Australia. We'll end up importing it from Indonesia and Brazil.

MURRAY WATT: I don't agree with that, respectfully. What we are asking for is for forestry that occurs under Regional Forestry Agreements - which includes both native forestry and plantation timber, it’s not just native forestry - if it's undertaken under those RFAs, they will need to meet the same standards that every other industry needs to meet.

Now, we constantly hear – and I used to be the Forestry Minister, I know people in the industry well - they're proud of the standards that they say they meet -

DAVID SPEERS: You want this industry of native forest logging to continue?

MURRAY WATT: Our policy is to not shut down native forestry. So, we do want it to meet higher environmental standards, the national standards. And the industry says that they can meet high environmental standards.

DAVID SPEERS: Final one. Business will now need to disclose under these new laws their climate emissions and their plans to mitigate those emissions. To what end? What will this data be used for?

MURRAY WATT: Well, the particular benefit of that, David, is that it will give us early visibility for applying other government policies such as the Safeguard Mechanism for new projects that are coming online that have large emissions. So, as you would know, the Safeguard Mechanism only applies to the heaviest-emitting projects, things like coalmines, smelters, those types of things.

DAVID SPEERS: What will this mean for other projects? It could, down the track, be used to stop them?

MURRAY WATT: No, it can't. We've made very clear, and I've said in the Chamber debate today, that that information won't be taken into account by a minister when they're deciding whether to approve a project or not.

DAVID SPEERS: Then why do you need to do this?

MURRAY WATT: Because, as I say, what it will do is give us early visibility of the projects that are coming online that are likely to trigger the Safeguard Mechanism and likely need to be required to reduce their emissions, and it enables us to start working with those proponents at a much earlier stage. Again, it was a recommendation from Graeme Samuel. We thought that, on balance, his reforms were worth following in almost every respect. It will enable that application of the Safeguard Mechanism, but it won't be taken into account around approvals.

DAVID SPEERS: Well, it’s been months of negotiation. Environment Minister Murray Watt, thanks for joining us.

MURRAY WATT: Thanks, David.