Interview with Kelly Higgins-Devine, ABC Radio Brisbane Mornings

KELLY HIGGINS-DEVINE, HOST: Well since its beginnings, the Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act has been seen as legislation that neither protects the environment nor does it serve the needs of development. The Federal Government has been attempting to push through big changes to the Act in an effort to strike that balance between the opposing forces who have to live with the legislation. New Federal Environment Minister Murray Watts speaking at the Queensland Media Club today about this issue amongst others. Senator, good morning.

MURRAY WATT, MINISTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND WATER: G'day Kelly, good to be with you.

KELLY HIGGINS-DEVINE: Can I just ask first, is it even possible to truly strike a balance between those who want to change the environment in some way and those who want to keep it as it is?

MURRAY WATT: Yeah, I think it is possible to get that balance, Kelly. And I think, frankly, that's what most Australians want to see. There obviously are some people involved in politics who like to argue that you can only provide advantages for business or you can only look after the environment, but I guess the Labor Party's position is that you can do both. And even in these reforms, to give you one example of how we're trying to do that, we want to reform how we can undertake what's known as regional planning through these laws. And what that involves is the federal government working with state and local governments, local communities, local industry within a particular region to define where are the areas within that region that are of very high environmental value and shouldn't be developed, and where are the areas that are of low environmental value where not only can things be developed but approvals can happen much more quickly. So that's one example of how if we take a sort of a region by region approach, we can make sure that we are protecting the important environmental values of that region while also making sure that we can deliver housing, renewables and other developments much more quickly than we can under the current law.

KELLY HIGGINS-DEVINE: But even that to me sounds like a bun fight in the making, Senator, asking state governments of any ilk, where are the areas you need to protect and where they aren't? Because surely they're going to have different ideas about what is able to be protected and what should be protected, they might have different ideas than conservationists and they might have different ideas than developers as well. So here we are back to whose opinion matters.

MURRAY WATT: Yeah, look, obviously everyone needs to come to these sorts of processes with an open mind and with goodwill. That's certainly the way that we've approached this legislation, and more broadly with these laws that we're putting through the Parliament, what we've been aiming to do is provide a balanced package that does deliver real wins for the environment and real wins for business and the community as well. The problem we've got, Kelly, as you said, this Act has been around for about 25 years. It's never been properly overhauled. The former federal government received a review from Professor Graeme Samuel, the former ACCC chair, five years ago with his recommendations for how we should improve the law. It still hasn't happened, and in that time, we've seen the environment go backwards. We've seen housing developments, wind farms, solar farms held up for years by bureaucratic processes. We've got to make some change because both our environment and our business and community needs change and we can't continue with the laws that we've got at the moment.

KELLY HIGGINS-DEVINE: Some of the concerns are, Senator, that this is just a way of fast-tracking coal projects, for example, or gas projects. How do you answer that?

MURRAY WATT: I certainly have heard that criticism and I accept that there are people within our community that don't want to see coal and gas projects happen. These days it's very rare for a new coal project to be approved. There's not as much of that sort of new development happening, and the reality is that as we move towards renewables, we do need some supplies of gas to be able to back up those renewables into the future. Also, we have manufacturing outfits that employ thousands of Queenslanders that rely on gas as part of their processing. So this is a transition that's underway, it's not going to happen overnight. Our government has now approved well over 100 new renewable energy projects since coming to office three years ago. Solar farms, wind farms, battery projects. My department and I are approving those sorts of things every week. But the reality is it's not going to happen immediately and that we will need some supplies, particularly of gas, as that transition continues.

KELLY HIGGINS-DEVINE: There's one sitting week left for federal parliament. And given that the Coalition and the Greens want their own changes to your proposed changes, given that the Coalition has now dumped net zero, does that leave you just negotiating with the Greens?

MURRAY WATT: No, we're having productive discussions with both the Coalition and the Greens. In fact, I met with both of their spokespeople for the environment again yesterday. I think I've met with each of them seven or eight times now over the last couple of months to understand what their position is and to see what we can do about that. We've said all along that we're prepared to pass these laws with the support of either the Coalition or the Greens, but it's got to be that balanced package that delivers wins for the environment and for business. It won't surprise you to hear that the Greens are primarily wanting more in there for the environment, the Coalition are primarily wanting to see more in there for business. And what I keep saying to them is that it's not one or the other. We've got to achieve both, and I think that's possible. So what I've made very clear is that we will be passing these laws through the Senate next week. It's the last sitting week of the year. We can't afford to let this drift into yet another year after all these years of waiting. And it's going to be a decision for the Coalition and the Greens about whether they want to be part of this. If the Coalition doesn't agree to the reforms, then we've got the option of going with the Greens. If the Greens don't agree, we've got the option of going to the Coalition. So hopefully that will really focus their minds. And I want to make sure, as I say, that we come out of this process with laws that really do deliver big improvements for the environment, big improvements for business, and help us deliver the housing and renewable projects that we need.

KELLY HIGGINS-DEVINE: It would be argued by environmentalists, seeing as the Coalition has now dumped net zero as part of their environmental policy, that they're not a group that is interested in the environment at all?

MURRAY WATT: Certainly, that's what the Greens would say. But -

KELLY HIGGINS-DEVINE: I didn't necessarily mean the Greens themselves, but fine.

MURRAY WATT: Yeah. Well, that is what the Greens Party is saying. I understand the argument they're making. But equally, there are people in the Liberal Party who recognise that the decision they made last week about net zero means they've got to demonstrate in some way they've got any environmental credentials. I mean, when it comes to the Greens, I think that one of the things they need to think about is that they paid a very big political price at the last federal election here in Brisbane because of the blocking tactics they employed to block housing, block environmental reform. And there's an opportunity for them to show that they've learned the lesson, that they're prepared to work with our government to deliver progress. Equally with the Coalition, I think it's really important for them to show that they have any interest in environmental issues by backing these reforms.

I have to say, I was a bit concerned to see in the Financial Review today, old mates Barnaby Joyce and Matt Canavan at it again saying they’re not going to back these reforms, and the concern I've always had about the Coalition's ability to pass these reforms is their own distraction and internal dynamics that are going on. So, you know, it looks like we might be in for a bit of a repeat where the National Party try to tell the Liberal Party what to do. But all of these things are much more important than politics. We need new environment laws that deliver better protections for our environment and allow us to build the homes and renewable energy that we desperately need.

KELLY HIGGINS-DEVINE: Federal Environment Minister Murray Watt, my guest this morning on 612 ABC Radio Brisbane. You're with Kelly Higgins-Devine. The Senator, speaking at the Queensland Media Club today. Senator, can I get your reaction to the Queensland energy roadmap and the LNP Government decision to keep coal-fired power stations open?

MURRAY WATT: Yeah, look, obviously I'm not in state politics anymore, but I obviously follow these things. And I think it was a very disappointing decision from the Queensland Government to go down that path. I mean, every reputable scientific and economic expert from the CSIRO to the Australian Energy Market Operator tells us that the cheapest way for us to build energy in the future is by renewables backed up by batteries and gas. And instead, what the Queensland Government seem intent on doing is to continue with higher cost, more unreliable coal-fired power for longer.

Now, I think we all know that that's because of the ideological differences within their party. We've seen them completely blow open in Canberra. And I think it's only a matter of time before we see that in the Queensland LNP as well. But what Queenslanders want to see is cheaper, cleaner energy. And the only way we can do that is through by building more renewables, not cancelling them like we've seen from the Queensland Government, and certainly by not extending and building more expensive coal-fired power.

KELLY HIGGINS-DEVINE: And finally, Senator, the BOM website, what's happening with it? Because it's universally loathed, but is there also any concern that when it comes to an actual weather emergency that it may not do the job?

MURRAY WATT: Look, I've been very concerned about what we've seen with the new website that the BOM developed recently, Kelly. And you probably saw I met with the acting CEO at the time about that and explained my concerns and that it frankly wasn't meeting public expectations. So I have been pleased to see the BOM make a number of changes to the website responding to those concerns and I know that they have more in store. We now have a new CEO of the BOM who started in the job last week. I met with him on his very first day on the job and I'm actually meeting with him again today to continue to explain what the expectations are.

So I've got a lot of time for the BOM. I know it's a widely criticised institution, but it does play a really important role. And, you know, having been the emergency management minister, I saw how important their advice was. So we've all got an interest in making sure the BOM works properly, is respected and gives reliable information. And I'm confident that they'll keep working on that job.

KELLY HIGGINS-DEVINE: Just on that reliable information, I know that my Drive colleague, Ellen Fanning, has been following this story about Queensland councils having to pay for live flooding information when the BOM turns off a system called Enviromon, and brings in a new one that it's going to have to pay to use. I mean, surely that's unreasonable to expect councils to pay for information that's going to be, you know, life-saving during an emergency.

MURRAY WATT: Well, I think the first thing I'd say is that we, as the Federal Government, we spend hundreds of millions of dollars every year on the BOM, and that's a very good investment of public funds, but it's not as if we're not chipping in. Some of the funds that councils have been complaining about have been in the order of $20,000 or $30,000 a year. So I think we need to keep it in perspective. The other issue -

KELLY HIGGINS-DEVINE: But that's not much for you as a federal minister. For them, it can be.

MURRAY WATT: Well, if you multiply that over every council in Queensland, it adds up. But I guess the point I'm making is that no one can say that we are not investing an enormous amount of money in the BOM already. And in fact, we've increased its funding since coming to office. But the issue to do with the software is that there was some software called Enviromon that collects, displays and analyses data from river gauges and rainfall. Basically, it has become less secure from a cyber security perspective in recent years and needed to be changed over. The Bureau of Meteorology actually doesn't licence the new software product, it can't sort of provide it for free. It is available to councils at their cost if they choose to. Alternatively, they can rely on information that's on the BOM website. So that option is still available as well. And that, of course, could be used for free. But I think that all of us, federal, state and local governments, have got an interest in serving the public in terms of reliable information. We're doing more than our share by spending hundreds of millions of dollars every year. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask councils to make a small contribution as well.

KELLY HIGGINS-DEVINE: Thank you so much for your time this morning. Federal Environment Minister Murray Watt, appreciate it.

MURRAY WATT: Good to talk, Kelly.

KELLY HIGGINS-DEVINE: There we go. And the Minister speaking today in Brisbane at the Queensland Media Club.