Interview with Patricia Karvelas, ABC Afternoon Briefing

PATRICIA KARVELAS, HOST: Now, Parliament is back in about a week's time, not this week but the week after. It’s very much anticipated that environmental law reform will be back on the agenda. The nation's environment ministers met today for the first time to discuss some of these issues. Murray Watt is the Environment Minister, and he’s been the one that’s been negotiating all of this. He was installed by the Prime Minister after the last election. Tanya Plibersek, you might recall, was the minister responsible, but after the reshuffle Murray Watt got this job with the expectation he could land a deal, a deal with WA that was pretty resistant to some of these changes. Also, deal with new environmental laws to be legislated by the end of the year - either get a deal with the Coalition under the leadership of Sussan Ley or the Greens, and of course both of those scenarios have their difficulties.

In a moment we’ll be joined by the Environment Minister, Murray Watt, who is speaking to us today after that meeting with his state and territory counterparts, to find out what they agreed on and also the pace of the reforms. Because the Minister has made clear that by the end of the year he wants to introduce the legislation. It has been reported that, privately, he’s expressed a view that not only does he want to introduce the laws, but he in fact wants to pass the laws by the end of the year as well. I'm not sure if that is likely, so I’ll ask him. Murray Watt, welcome to the program. I think I've got you? Minister, welcome to the program.

MURRAY WATT, MINISTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND WATER: Hi PK. Sorry, I can just hear you faintly. I think they are going to sort out the volume for me.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: I will try to project, which is not hard for me. Minister, welcome. You've met with state and territories today on the environmental law changes. What agreement did you come to?

MURRAY WATT: Yeah, it was another really positive step forward in these reforms, PK. You will have seen, over the last few months, I've held nearly 80 meetings now with a range of stakeholders, state and territory governments as well. And today, federal, state and territory environment and planning ministers have agreed to work together on the aspect of these reforms around speeding up assessment and approvals processes for project.

One of the current problems that we have with the current EPBC laws is that they, essentially, require a duplication of assessment and approvals processes when people are seeking to build housing developments or renewable energy or other types of projects as well. And one of the things we are trying to achieve through these reforms is to remove that duplication as much as we can and, wherever possible, have one level of government undertaking at least the assessment of a project rather than having to double up.

If we can get to that point we would expect that we can be saving, in some cases, years in an approval process and certainly months. From a business perspective time is money, so the faster we can get these things through, the better. It is worth saying, of course all of these assessments and approvals would remain having to pass very strict environmental safeguards. But at the moment, the kind of cumbersome processes that we have in place under the EPBC Act are slowing down the delivery of housing and renewables and no environmental outcome.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Yeah. And, Minister, to be clear, you got agreement from all states and territories today to make that a one-step process at the beginning?

MURRAY WATT: Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't say that they’ve all agreed right now to enact that change, but the point is that they are supporting changes in the laws that will enable us to reach those agreements, to have those sort of assessment processes only happen once. Of course, we would need to then go and enter into agreements with each state around that process. But the point is that they have supported the principle of doing so, and changes to the laws that will achieve that.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: There are 12 sitting days left this year. Is that enough time for Parliament to scrutinise and pass your changes? I’ve seen it reported that you would like not only to introduce the legislation but to actually pass it by the end of the year, is that right?

MURRAY WATT: Well, certainly what I have said is, both privately and publicly, is that we want to pass these laws as quickly as we possibly can. It’s worth remembering that it is nearly five years since Graeme Samuel handed down his review of the Act and his recommendations about how to fix it to the former environment Minister Sussan Ley in the Morrison Government, so it has been five years and we still haven't seen these reforms enacted -

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Sure, and some of those delays, with respect, happened under your government as well. And so -

MURRAY WATT: Yeah, sure. I’m not trying to attribute blame here, I’m just -

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Yeah, I just think that it is fair that it’s been, like, everyone’s kicked this can down the road. So, do you think you can pass it by the end of the year?

MURRAY WATT: Exactly, and it’s time to stop doing that.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Do you think you can pass them?

MURRAY WATT: Yeah, and it is time to stop kicking the can down the road. Because every day we delay we see the environment suffer and we see those important housing, renewables and other projects being held up in cumbersome processes. So, it is obviously a matter for the Parliament to decide how quickly this will be passed, but while a huge amount of consultation has occurred since I’ve become the Minister, there was a lot of consultation under my predecessor, Tanya Plibersek, and there's a lot of consultation that has been going on for five years.

But we’ve taken the time over the last few months since I came into the role to very heavily consult industry groups, environment groups, state and territory governments, so I think those sorts of stakeholders have a pretty clear idea on the direction that they are likely to be heading. And it’s a really positive thing to have that agreement from state and territory ministers today.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: And Parliament sits in a week's time, just over a week, of course. Will the legislation be ready to be tabled at the beginning of that week?

MURRAY WATT: We're still working around the clock to finalise the drafting on this legislation, PK, so I'm not in a position today to say exactly what day we'll be ready to introduce, but I would like to see the legislation introduced to the Parliament in that next fortnight of the sittings. Exactly when we can do that will depend on when it's ready to draft. We do intend to be showing parts of the draft bill to stakeholders very soon to start getting some of their feedback on that. We’re reaching the point now -

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Okay, can I just get in here? Sorry, I'm a bit of a getter-innerer. I've been on holidays and I'm not afraid to get in -

MURRAY WATT: That's alright. I hope you had a good break, by the way.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Oh, look, I'm living my best life, Minister, but I'm enjoying talking to you. But I want to know this. When you say you'll consult on the legislation to particular stakeholders, will you let them brief and talk about it, or are you going to make them sign confidentiality agreements?

MURRAY WATT: We won't be making people sign confidentiality agreements.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Well that’s a relief.

MURRAY WATT: I got a lot of feedback coming into the role that people didn't want that level of secrecy attached to the consultations. I'm going to be asking people to be respectful of the fact that we're being transparent with them and to not play mischief. These reforms are too important for people to be getting out there and misrepresenting what's contained in a draft bill. But I think we've built a high degree of trust through this consultation process over the last few months, and I'd be certainly trusting the stakeholders to do the right thing as well.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Okay. You've announced plans for a bi-lateral agreement with the Western Australian Government to allow them to assess projects under these federal laws. You've said you're open to similar agreements with other states. What does the deal actually mean, practically? I don't think I can really understand its implications.

MURRAY WATT: No, it is a bit of a complicated one, PK. So we actually have capacity under the current EPBC Act to enter into an agreement with a state or territory government which allows them to do the assessment or, in some cases, the approvals of a project against EPBC laws.

The problem is that barely any state has taken up that opportunity and federal governments haven't been that keen to do it either. We do have a functioning agreement with the New South Wales Government at the moment which sees nearly 60 per cent of major projects in New South Wales that require EPBC assessment that are actually done by the New South Wales Government on our behalf. And that's what I'm talking about when I say that these kind of things can save time, because you've got one level of government doing the assessment on their behalf and on our behalf, rather than both governments having to do it separately.

So the discussions I had with Premier Cook this week in Perth were along the lines that we are keen to enter that sort of an agreement. We'll obviously have to do some further work to scope out the terms of that agreement, but I think it's really encouraging to see another state government keen to pick up the baton and put their shoulder to the wheel in terms of how we can assess projects and remove that level of duplication, and we're keen to do similar things with other states.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Minister, just a couple of other issues I'd like to just get you on this afternoon. One of them being Wayne Swan's decision, he's put out a statement to step down as Labor President. I think he's kind of suggested there should be younger blood. Do you agree?

MURRAY WATT: Well, first of all, I really want to pay tribute to Wayne's incredible decades of service to the Labor Party and to the wider community. Of course, over the last few years, he's held the really important role of ALP National President, over what has been both a difficult and a joyous time for the Labor Party. He can take a lot of credit for the fact that we have become elected twice now as a government and that we've built such a strong majority. And that, of course, follows many other decades of Wayne's service to the party and the community, so he finishes up with our very best wishes.

Look, obviously the party will now go through a process to determine the replacement for Wayne, he's set very big shoes to fill. But yeah, look, we've got lots of new blood and younger blood coming through the party so I'm sure someone very capable will take on the role.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Who would you like to see in the role?

MURRAY WATT: I'd like to see someone really capable, and we've got plenty to choose from, so I'm sure that we'll settle on a really good option.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: And reports that there's going to be some sort of factional fight about this. Is that the case?

MURRAY WATT: Look, I think the Labor Party under Anthony Albanese has demonstrated a capacity to resolve these sorts of issues without massive outbreaks of factional warfare -

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Is that because Anthony Albanese just decides stuff now?

MURRAY WATT: Well, I was going to say, it stands in very great contrast to the Federal Liberal Party who are just consumed with factional warfare, and James Paterson decided this week to go out and talk to the media -

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Alright, fair play trying to get that out. Fair enough. Donald Trump and the meeting next week. What does success look like?

MURRAY WATT: Look, I mean, obviously the Prime Minister has had a number of very positive discussions with President Trump already and having this meeting will be able to advance not only their relationship but the relationship between our two countries. So I don't want to pre-empt that meeting and set any expectations, but there's obviously a wide range of issues to be discussed, ranging from trade to security. I'm sure the Prime Minister will acquit his obligations very well.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Okay, and do you need an agreement or words from Trump locking in behind AUKUS?

MURRAY WATT: No, look, I'm not going to set any tests for success. I'm sure there'll be plenty of commentators who do that over the next few days. But I think it'll be another sign of the strong relationship that continues to exist between our two countries under our two governments.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Sure. But you do need a solid kind of commitment, don't you, from Donald Trump that AUKUS will be delivered at this key meeting?

MURRAY WATT: Well, all of the signs are very positive about the US' commitment to AUKUS. We've seen President Trump make positive comments himself, we've seen his senior team do the same thing. We're very confident about the US’ commitment to this and, as I say, I don't want to pre-empt that meeting.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Okay. We're out of time but thank you so much for joining us.

MURRAY WATT: Thanks, PK.