Interview with Trudy McIntosh, Sky News Politics Now
TRUDY MCINTOSH, HOST: And Environment Minister has told Sky News his long-awaited environment reforms will pass Parliament before it wraps at the end of next week. I spoke to Murray Watt a short time ago and started by asking him about the COP Summit.
MURRAY WATT, MINISTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND WATER: I think that what Chris Bowen has secured is a very good outcome for Australia and the Pacific in the circumstances. I'm sure you're aware that the way this system works is that it's not put to a vote. A decision has got to be made by consensus. And the fact that Chris Bowen and the Australian Government have been able to secure some significant wins for Australia and the Pacific in this outcome, I think, is very good. We were always saying that we wanted to make sure there was a strong focus on Australia and the Pacific's needs through this COP. That will now happen as a result of Chris holding the role as COP president when it comes to the negotiations. That will enable him, as the COP president for negotiations, to put forward some of the key priorities for Australia and the Pacific. And I think that being able to host a COP plus event in the Pacific, which we would expect world leaders to be attending, is a really positive development as well. So, in the circumstances, I think that's a really good outcome and full marks to Chris.
TRUDY MCINTOSH: We've already seen some criticism from the Opposition, I'm sure you probably expect it, Murray, but Nationals leader David Littleproud called this an expensive vanity project for Chris Bowen. And you talk about that role he's going to have now ongoing in the lead up to next year's COP. Is there a risk that Australians might see that this is not the right priority for the minister responsible to ensuring we do get this renewables rollout right and that we can actually finally see power prices come down?
MURRAY WATT: Well, you would expect the Coalition to be critical of anything our Government does, especially if it's on an issue like climate change, which they fundamentally don't even believe in. I mean there are still people in the Coalition who want to debate whether climate change is real. So, of course, they would be opposed to anything involving a conference relating to climate change and energy. In fact, I think that this is a really good opportunity for Australia, through Chris Bowen having this role, to advance the kind of issues that matter to Australia around climate change and energy policy going forward. The reality is that climate change is a global problem. It needs every country in the world stepping up and doing its part. And we will now, as a result of the role that Chris is having, be able to put the issues that are of greatest concern to us at the forefront of the world's thinking about these issues. So I think it can only be a good thing for Australians, including in relation to how we can make that renewables transition happen in a way that delivers the lower power prices for Australians that we all want to see.
TRUDY MCINTOSH: On to your portfolio, Murray, I know you've got a lot on your plate. We're already in this rapid countdown to the end of the parliamentary year. You want to see that your environmental reform’s pass. We've only got four sitting days slated next week left. How close are you at the moment to a deal?
MURRAY WATT: Look, I think every day that goes by and every meeting I have with the Coalition and the Greens gets us closer to being able to land a deal to pass these really important reforms. And as I get around the country, what I hear more than anything is that people are sick of this debate and they want to see something done. This is a piece of legislation that's 25 years old, has never been properly overhauled, and it's five years now since Graeme Samuel delivered his recommendations to Sussan Ley when she was the Environment Minister under Scott Morrison. So this has been going on longer than Blue Hills, and it's time we brought it to a head. More importantly, in those five years since we had that review tabled, we've seen the environment go backwards, and we've also seen the housing we need, the renewables we need, the critical minerals we need and other projects held up by red tape, and we have an opportunity next week to fix that once and for all. So really, I'm very clear. We're going to be passing these reforms next week. The only question is, is it going to be with the Coalition or the Greens? And it's time they both got serious and realised -
TRUDY MCINTOSH: And what would be your instinct, Murray?
MURRAY WATT: That if they don't come to an agreement with us, we'll go the other way. My instinct? My instinct is that we're going to pass these reforms.
TRUDY MCINTOSH: What’s your instinct on which way that will go?
MURRAY WATT: Look, it's probably a little too early to say that, Trudy, but my instinct, and more than my instinct, I'm extremely confident that we will pass these laws based on the conversations that I've been having. Of course, the Coalition of the Greens are going to go out there and say all sorts of things in the public domain, but when I meet with them privately, they're narrowing their list of demands, and I'm confident that we can secure a deal, and one that delivers for both the environment and for business. Frankly, from the Coalition's perspective, the thing they need to do more than anything else is start focusing on these reforms. They've spent months and weeks just jostling around leadership rather than focusing on important reforms like this. And all I'm asking is that for one week, they put aside the leadership jostling and focus on some reforms that will be better for business and better for the environment.
TRUDY MCINTOSH: But Murray, it seems to me this end of year deadline is self-imposed. Can you give us an example of what's a real-world consequence that would happen if the laws don't pass next week?
MURRAY WATT: The real-world consequence of this, Trudy, is that we will continue to see important environmental habitat cleared. We have a frightening number of threatened species in Australia at the moment, and it's growing by the day. I don’t think that the Australians want to see those really iconic birds, animals, koalas, plants become extinct. And the risk is that the longer we take to get this done, the greater the risk of that sort of species extinction.
And equally, from a business perspective, business are screaming about the need to reform these laws so that they can get on and deliver the housing we need, the renewables we need, the energy projects we need, and the critical minerals projects we need. Currently, they are tied up in red tape that exists under this law, and we’re presenting an opportunity for the sides of politics to fix this. So, there are real world consequences. It means that housing will be held up, it means that other energy projects will be held up and, as I say, the environment would continue to go backwards. It’s time we fix this and brought it to a head. It’s been going on for five years and now is the time to fix it.
TRUDY MCINTOSH: I’m sure you’ve already seen some of the front-running of this debate, Nationals Senator, Matt Canavan, accusing you of trying to hold a gun to the peoples’ head in terms of these negotiations, Bridget McKenzie saying you’re trying to bully the Senate. What lengths are you willing to go to next week to get this passed? Are you confident it will happen? Are you going to tell the Senate, we’re not leaving until this passes?
MURRAY WATT: I don’t think it’ll come to that Trudy. I think that in the end, next week I hope the Coalition, for example, can focus on this rather than having yet another leadership challenge. I was a bit concerned to see the comments from Matt Canavan and Barnaby Joyce in one of the newspapers today saying that they're not going to support these reforms. One of my concerns all along has been that the Coalition would be just so wracked by the internal division that they wouldn't be able to focus on these reforms and see the benefits for business that come from them. So it's really up to the Coalition to get their act together and start focusing on this and not, yet again, see the nationals wagging the dog of the Liberal Party. We've seen them do that when it came to net zero. We need to see those people in the Liberal Party who want to see these reforms go through to stand up and make it happen. Equally, on the Green side of the ledger, we need them to get away from the kind of blockage tactics that they've been engaged in for so long. They paid a big political price at the last federal election for blocking housing, blocking environmental reform, and I hope that they've heard the lesson.
TRUDY MCINTOSH: I suppose on that, is there a concern in your negotiations - you're dealing with a Liberal counterpart in Angie Bell, your Shadow Minister, a Liberal Opposition Leader - but are you concerned you could do a deal with them that then sees Nationals say, we're not going to back that?
MURRAY WATT: Well, I mean, I guess in the end that'll be a matter for both the Liberal and the National Party to work out. I mean, I think half the time they don't know what's going on in their own parties. It's not really for me, from Labor's perspective, to predict what can happen in the Liberals and the National Party. But that's why I'm saying, you know, I'm just appealing to them to spend one week forgetting about leadership battles, forgetting about who's going to be in the big chair, and think about how we get more homes built, how we get more energy projects built, how we get critical minerals out of the ground and creating jobs for Australians, and how we can actually protect our natural environment. That's the challenge that both the Liberal and National parties face in the next week, but only they can determine whether they're up for it or not.
TRUDY MCINTOSH: A final one, Murray, on net zero. Are you concerned that Labor does risk losing public support for the net zero target in the context at the moment of the Prime Minister, the Treasurer today, not able to give a specific promise on when we're actually going to see power bills come down?
MURRAY WATT: No, I'm not, Trudy. I think that Australians fundamentally know that the cheapest way that we can meet our future power needs in Australia is through renewables backed up by gas, batteries and hydropower. Every credible expert, from the CSIRO to the Australian Energy Market Operator, tells us that we can do it the expensive way, like the Coalition want us to do, with coal and nuclear, which is more expensive, or we can go the cheaper route through renewables backed up by gas, hydro and batteries.
You wouldn't be rebuilding a house and choosing really expensive materials from the past. You'd be choosing the most modern, new, efficient and cheapest materials to build that house, and that's what we want to do with the energy grid.
TRUDY MCINTOSH: Environment Minister Murray Watt, always appreciate your time. Thank you. We'll see you here in Parliament next week.
MURRAY WATT: Sounds good, Trudy.