Interview with Jess McGuire, ABC Mid North Coast

JESS MCGUIRE (HOST): Now what does it look like when disaster keeps coming back? Fires in 2019, floods in 2021. Now more homes, farms and livelihoods have been hit hard with the recent flood emergency right across the mid north coast. The Assistant Minister for Emergency Management and Climate Change and Energy, Josh Wilson has been on the ground today visiting some of the hardest hit areas from Taree to Wauchope to Port Macquarie and he's been hearing directly from locals, and he joins me now. Good afternoon, Josh.

JOSH WILSON: Hi Jess, nice to be with you.

MCGUIRE: Nice to have you here. Now look, what did you hear from people on the ground today? What stood out to you about how the recovery is going?

WILSON: Well, I think first of all I pay tribute to the community and its resilience. It was great to hear from people who felt that despite suffering a historic flood and all of the really dire impacts that that has brought to householders and small business owners and farmers and primary producers, that the community has risen to that challenge. It's interesting based on, you know, your intro, that this is a community that is no stranger to those kinds of disaster impacts and, while that is really rough, it clearly has helped to build a community that has some accumulated resilience and an Australian can-do attitude taken to the next level. So, it was good to hear that, that positivity from people, local volunteers, Rural Fire Service folk, SES people, small business owners, whilst at the same time, you know, as a visitor from Western Australia and someone who doesn't come from a landscape that experiences floods, its confronting to see the scale of it myself personally, even though it's now a few weeks later, so much great work has happened and today frankly was quite a sort of a sunny and the rivers look relatively normal and the bridges aren't covered in water, but you can still see plenty of evidence of just how large scale and impactful this event was.

MCGUIRE: Local farmers, small business owners, they're saying that the disaster assistance isn't going far enough. Now I'm wondering, has the NSW Government formally asked for category D support to bring in more help?

WILSON: Well, so far, certainly from the Commonwealth and the Albanese Government's point of view, you know, we're going to back in the response from the NSW Government that's led by the state government. That's how these things work. I know that the NSW Government's continuing to undertake assessments about the impacts for farmers and not just individual farms, but the sector as a whole. We've responded to the requests to date and the Commonwealth has been clear. The Prime Minister, when he was on the ground here, has been clear. You know, we're going to back this community in. And if the NSW Government comes to us on the basis of those assessments with further requests, of course, we'll try and respond to those.

MCGUIRE: So, have they asked for Category D support?

WILSON: Well, some of those assessments, as I understand it, haven't been completed.

MCGUIRE: So, that's still underway?

WILSON: That's right. So, there's been a level of support, the sort of $25,000 level that has been approved and is flowing out. In addition to some of the other Commonwealth payments, the Disaster Recovery Payment of $1,000 to adults, $400 to children in the 12 designated Local Government Areas. There's also the Disaster Recovery Allowance for people who have a work separation. But then those broader funding arrangements under those different A B C D categories, you know, that will continue to be part of how the recovery is delivered.

MCGUIRE: People are crying out for that Category D funding. People are comparing this to the Lismore floods, and there was more money put on the table in the wake of those. Why is the response different this time? Or are you saying it's just different for now, that may change?

WILSON: Yeah, well, I wouldn't say that. There's no way in the world that the response is over. It was clear today talking to people that they've come through the worst of the disaster in its most intense form. But these things have a long tail, and that recovery will take some time. So, the response will be ongoing, and the Commonwealth will continue to walk alongside and work hand-in-hand with the NSW Government.

MCGUIRE: Is Category D off the table. So, you're saying it's not off the table? We just don't know.

WILSON: No, look, it's not for me to say that things are on or off the table, and as far as I'm aware, like in the way that the recovery will continue, it starts with the assessment of people's needs and then goes from there.

MCGUIRE: Right, okay. And look, you did mention when you talked about being out in the community, that our volunteers, people in these towns, they keep stepping up in times of crisis. They're being applauded and celebrated quite rightly for doing that, but they're also really exhausted. You know, can we keep relying on volunteers like this, like what is being done to offer them more support?

WILSON: Well, the point you make is absolutely right, and we know that's something we need to think about, because we know the reality is that these kinds of events are going to be more frequent and more intense Australia wide. So, we can't shirk that, we can't run away from that. I think there are two sides to it. I think that I've seen evidence of that kind of resilience with people who, because they had been through the flood events in ‘21 and ‘22, actually had some experience and knew a little bit about what was involved and where to go and how to start the process. And they put that into action. They had confidence in that, and their expectation that support would come from the responsible agencies and then ultimately the involvement of the ADF and all of those other things, those expectations were met. I actually heard quite a lot of positive feedback about that. But it's true that sometimes we focus on the, I'd say almost the hardware like infrastructure, business impacts, financial impacts, fences, stock and so on and so on. The soft tissue impacts have to be considered as well, the social and emotional wellbeing in communities. And we've got to make sure that just as people in these communities and people who come in to support them put their arms around one another, that we sustain that effort because in some cases those impacts keep coming, particularly after that initial intense period and the adrenaline that's associated with that passes. And yet, you know, people in these communities wake up in week 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and there's still a lot to be done and there's still impacts that will be felt for a considerable period of time.

MCGUIRE: Oh, absolutely. We are with the Assistant Minister for Emergency Management and Climate Change and Energy, Josh Wilson.

MCGUIRE: And we are joined by Josh Wilson, Assistant Minister for Emergency Management and Climate Change and Energy, who is in the Mid North Coast today. Thanks for being here very much. Look, Labor's cited a number of things as being really significant environmental achievements during their first term, right? You had record renewables approval. You invested $1.2 billion to save the Great Barrier Reef. There were some emissions targets locked into law. Like. Is that a record that you're really wanting to build on in this second term?

WILSON: Absolutely. I mean, we know that climate change is a very, very significant challenge. We came to government with a mandate and a clear focus. Australia onto a sensible path. We increased our emission reduction target under the Paris Climate Agreement by more than 50% and we legislated net zero by 2050 and we set an 82% renewable energy target. We've increased renewable energy generation by 25% already. And on the environment front, made some big strides as well. We made the largest acts of global marine conservation in each of calendar years 2023 and 2024. And we now protect more of our ocean domain than any other country on Earth. But there's more to be done. We are the stewards of a remarkable continent of environmental treasures and biodiversity that is unique, and it is under pressure. And that's why the Prime Minister and new Environment Minister, Minister Watt have been clear that reforming our national environment protection framework is a big focus. But certainly, the work that I support Minister Chris Bowen doing in climate and energy is just as important.

MCGUIRE: You're from Western Australia. The first major environmental decision of the second term of the Albanese government has been to approve the North West Shelf gas project extension. And that's going to lock in emissions 20 years beyond Australia's net zero target until 2070. Doesn't that risk undermining Australia's climate credibility?

WILSON: Well, I think the way that that decision has been characterised isn't entirely accurate. I mean, Minister Watt made a decision under the EPBC about the Burrup Hub. It's not about the North West Shelf and further gas developments. It's about the Burrup Hub processing plant. And it was specifically about impacts on First Nations heritage, the absolutely incredible Murujuga rock art. So, he's made a provisional decision with conditions based on expert advice and scientific advice that's designed to ensure that that First Nations heritage is protected. What the Australian Government has done, as I said before from the outset, is put Australia on this very different path. We've significantly increased our emissions reduction target. And what's more, we've got put in place the policies and the investments to make a big difference in both reducing our emissions and, frankly, in being part of not just that multilateral or global cooperative effort to reduce emissions, but actual specific bilateral partnerships with countries in our region like Singapore and Japan and Korea to advance that green energy transition that we have to see.

MCGUIRE: The Northwest Shelf gas project has had really bad response from people that are concerned about the environment. And beyond the environmental concerns, critics are saying that most of this gas is going to be sent offshore. It's going to offer very little benefit in terms of local supply or price relief. What would your response be to that?

WILSON: Well, we've been really clear. Australia knows that it's important for us as a nation and it's also important for us as a responsible member of the global community to be serious about climate change. Climate change presents a massive risk to our economy, to our human communities and to our environment.

MCGUIRE: And yet, so people might say a decision like this…

WILSON: The decision that Minister Watt has made under the law, and according to scientific advice and input, including from First Nations stakeholders, is about a processing plant. It's not about the North West Shelf, it's not about a new gas development, it's not about a new gas field. It's about a processing plant and the effect of airborne emissions, not greenhouse gas emissions on climate change, but airborne emissions on Murujuga. And that's a very, very serious matter in itself because the heritage of those millions of petroglyphs is …

MCGUIRE: The response hasn't been great.

WILSON: No, and I understand that, I don't shy away from it. People in the community are concerned about climate change and they should be.

MCGUIRE: And that it's the first major environmental decision, I think probably had people a bit taken aback who might have expected something a little bit different from the, from the second term. But I hear what you say. One of the things that you even mentioned, you know, you're taking climate change seriously, that we're getting weather events that are more frequent. NSW, as I said at the beginning, we've seen fires in 2019, floods in 2021. There's now more damage across the Mid North Coast. They are devastating our communities. And scientists are saying this is just the beginning. So, the cleanups, the aftermath of these things, they're very costly in every possible way. What's the government doing though, to address the root causes? Like we don't just want to look at the cleanup. Are we doing anything really proactive to stop these events from happening again.

WILSON: We are, I mean, as I said, like one of the things every country has to do in Australia has to do is make sure that our mitigation efforts are really significant. So, you know, one of the things that we did as soon as we legislated net zero by 2050 was reform an ineffective Safeguard Mechanism and that puts a serious and rigorous obligation on the biggest emitters. We've done all of the stuff I described before to decarbonise our energy and to make us not just a renewable energy superpower, but a green energy and green industry powerhouse into the future.

MCGUIRE: Because I would imagine there's a lot of potential there.

WILSON: Of course there is, it's enormous and in fact it should be the bedrock of Australia's future. We've been blessed in the past in lots of ways, but we're making a transition into the 21st century as a nation that has the best renewable energy resources on the planet, plus all of this scientific and academic expertise, entrepreneurial energy and all the rest of it. Those things should be, whether in form of green iron, green steel, low carbon liquid fuels, zero carbon manufacturing, that should be things that my kids and their kids look forward to as the source of employment, and frankly contributions to the decarbonisation task in other parts of the world. But we are going to deal with, and we are dealing with climate impacts and we do see that. So, the Disaster Ready Fund is a good example. It's a billion dollars that helps on a co-funded basis local governments and state governments undertake work that delivers more resilience, reduces risk and makes sure that we're better placed to deal with some of the things that we're experiencing. You know, we don't want to go back, as will be the case here, we don't want to go back and replace a bridge or replace a road with something that is no better when it comes to dealing with a future flood event than what was there before and some of that betterment work, today the value of literally sitting down and hearing from local government people – Port Macquarie, Hastings, started off at the Mid Coast Council, Kempsey, Nambucca, I'm tempted to say Nambucca because it rhymes with Sambucca.

MCGUIRE: You've just given us quite an insight into your past, yes.

WILSON: But you know what they talk about as people who are responsible for community facilities and parks and playgrounds but also bridges and roads and all of those things. And they know that as they replace some of that damaged infrastructure and those damaged community resources, they want to be doing it so that the next time around that is more resilient, the harm is less, the recovery is quicker, you have fewer interdictions when it comes to transport and community isolation and all of those things. And we all have to be in that game. The Commonwealth sees that very clearly. I'm glad to share that work with my sort of senior Ministerial colleagues, but in the end we've got to do it on a coordinated basis between all three levels of government, but then more widely with companies and nongovernment organisations, and the broader community.

MCGUIRE: Look, it is really terrific to have politicians coming to visit our communities. As you say, you're from Western Australia, so being able to get you here on the ground is so beneficial, seeing firsthand what people are dealing with. And I'm sure everyone's really appreciative of you making the effort to travel here. Josh Wilson, do you have any final words for our flood affected listeners?

WILSON: Well, I just, I'm grateful that people at a difficult time made a little bit of time to share their experiences with me. You know, that's sort of no small thing. There are a lot of people here who've had their own personal resources run pretty low through these, through these times, but essentially, yeah, it's a privilege to come and see a community that really has risen to that challenge and where the best of Australia's character and the best Australian values have really been on show. I would take the opportunity to pay tribute to people in the sort of volunteer part of the response effort, in particular the Rural Fire Service people, the SES people, but a lot of just spontaneous neighbours and other community members who, in addition to whatever they've gone through, have found a bit of extra time and energy to support fellow community members who need that help, put their arm around them, show them some love. That's something that we should always celebrate.

MCGUIRE: Yeah, look, it's a fantastic community around regional NSW and they always step up for each other and it's really nice to have you here to witness it. We've been talking about to Josh Wilson, who's the Assistant Minister for Emergency Management and Climate Change and Energy and we so appreciate your time today. Thanks very much.