Interview with Nadia Mitsopoulous, ABC Radio Perth Mornings

JOSH WILSON: Hi Nadia. Good evening from where I am, but nice to be with you.

NADIA MITSOPOULOUS: What's the point of conferences like COP30, if major emitters like India and China are not willing to make deeper cuts, if they are not fully on board, aren't you wasting your time?

WILSON: No, not at all. I mean, we've got to continue with this global cooperative effort to bring emissions down in order to create a safe climate. And every country has a responsibility to be part of that process, and countries will approach it to some degree on their own terms and based on their own circumstances, but the overall direction of travel is critical, and while we've seen some heartening progress, there's a lot further to go, and it's absolutely in Australia's interest to be part of that, to make a contribution to leadership when it comes to seeing decarbonisation and emissions reduction to create a safe climate, and because part of that, of course, is the clean energy and clean industry transition from which we've got so much to gain, especially in Western Australia.

MITSOPOULOUS: When the Nationals abandoned Net Zero, their deputy leader Kevin Hogan told me this:

KEVIN HOGAN: We, as Australia, on our own, can't change the temperature of the globe at all. I mean, we are less than 2% of global emissions, and we could shut down Australia overnight if it might feel people feel anxiety lower in the sense of doing their bit on climate change. But I'll tell you what might be in a lot of trouble.

MITSOPOULOUS: You hear people saying that all the time. So, do Australia's emissions actually matter?

WILSON: Of course they matter. Because if you look at all the countries that emit the same amount that we do or less, that's 40% of global emissions is getting on for half of all emissions. So, you know, I don't know why Kevin Hogan would make that argument. 

It's an argument that really runs us down. It says that Australia doesn't matter. It says that we're too small to make a difference. That's not the Australian character at its best, in my view. And I don't actually speak to anyone who takes that view. That's a defeatist kind of attitude, and the way Kevin Hogan frames it ignores the very, very, very significant advantages that we have from being part of the clean energy transition. 

We have the best wind and solar resources in the world that is the cheapest form of new energy generation, and we are already seeing the economic growth and the new industry development and the jobs that come from taking a lead part in this global cooperative effort.

MITSOPOULOUS: My guest this morning is Josh Wilson, the Federal Member for Fremantle and the Assistant Minister for Climate Change and Energy. Well, as you'd be aware, the Liberals are meeting this morning to determine what their position on net zero will be. And just this morning, I heard a Liberal Senator claiming that Labor's net zero plans will cost Australia between $7 and $9 trillion is that true?

WILSON: Absolutely not. And I think people would take any sort of numerical or cost fantasising from the coalition with the biggest handful of salt that they could possibly find. 

I mean, this is the outfit that went to the last election having not had an energy plan for all of their time in government. They went to the last election promising to deliver nuclear power stations right around the country at a cost of $600 million that was going to go entirely on the public purse. I mean, they have no credibility, and they could, frankly, pull any number they like out of thin air, I suppose, if that's the way they think it is sensible to have a conversation about a very serious matter. 

Our energy transition is core to our future economic and social wellbeing. And in just the last three and a half years, we've added 18 gigawatts of new renewables. We've seen downward pressure on wholesale prices. We've approved more than 100 large scale renewable projects. We're seeing the biggest investment pipeline in technologies like green hydrogen than is evident anywhere else in the world. 

And yet, strangely, you've got the Liberals and the Nationals who think that the best thing would be for us to turn our back on that, to turn our back on the science, to ignore the economics and put our wellbeing, and certainly our economic future at enormous peril. That would be the worst thing we could do.

MITSOPOULOUS: You've got a target of cutting emissions by 62% to 70% of 2005 levels by 2035. What people still can't understand is how your plan will achieve that.

WILSON: Well, I think if people go and look at the Net Zero Plan that we provided when we made that commitment, it sets out quite clearly how we'll make that progress across six sectors, and people would have confidence the 2030 target that we announced is on track, and that the 82% renewable energy target that we announced is on track. 

We are going to continue to see the deployment of renewable energy and storage, and we're going to continue to see innovation and progress in relation to clean industries like green metals and green hydrogen and low carbon liquid fuels, the things that the world is calling out for and that we have this very, very special comparative advantage in being able to deliver. 

I think that the Australian community has strongly endorsed the process that we're going through, the direction of travel that the Albanese Government has laid before the Australian community, asked for their support, received their support, because we've been clear about what is required, and we have a record of delivering.

MITSOPOULOUS: But every year, Australia exports more than $100 billion worth of coal and gas. How can you claim to be a climate leader if you're still doing that?

WILSON: We are doing what every country needs to do. We are significantly reducing our emissions. The target that you referenced, the 62% to 70% is an ambitious and practical target, a target that is enormously well respected. I can tell you on the ground here in Brazil that there are lots of countries that start the conversation with me by saying that that's an impressive target.

The Net Zero Plan is the right way and responsible way to go about achieving it. And they also respect the fact that it's for each and every country to reduce their emissions. We don't take responsibility directly for emissions that occur in other countries, because that's not how the system works. Just as we do take responsibility for emissions that come from cars that are manufactured elsewhere, but we are mindful that the transition ultimately requires the world to get out of fossil fuels. 

We've said that very clearly, and the work that we're doing in partnership with countries in our region around things like green hydrogen is all about making a transition away from fossil fuels to zero emission energy down the track, and we're doing that rapidly ourselves. Other countries have different challenges of being on that path, but we are supporting them as they move in that direction.

MITSOPOULOUS: On ABC Radio, Perth and WA you're listening to the Assistant Minister for Climate Change and Energy, Josh Wilson. As the Assistant Minister for Climate Change and Energy, are you genuinely comfortable with Woodside being able to operate the North West Shelf until 2070?

WILSON: The one thing you've always got to have is you've got to have decisions that are made in accordance with the law and in accordance with proper process. And Minister Watt made a decision in relation to the gas hub…

MITSOPOULOUS: But are you comfortable with that decision? For the people that you represent in Fremantle, who I would hazard a guess, a lot of them would not be comfortable with that, who you represent.

WILSON: I am comfortable with decisions that are made in accordance with the law, and as someone who cares about democracy and as someone who cares about good government, I will never, ever say that I want processes to occur that are not in keeping with the law and are not in keeping with expert advice.

MITSOPOULOUS: That was Josh Wilson speaking to me a little earlier this morning. He is the Labor MP for Fremantle and Assistant Minister for Climate Change and Energy. He's in Brazil for the COP30 conference.