Interview with Patricia Karvelas, ABC Afternoon Briefing

PATRICIA KARVELAS:  Josh, welcome to the program.

JOSH WILSON: Thanks, Patricia.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Did this report shock you?

JOSH WILSON: No, I mean, it shows that Australia faces very serious and conceivable risks from climate change, particularly if we don't do the two important things, which are to reduce emissions in Australia and be part of that global cooperative action to reduce emissions worldwide, and also to take sensible evidence informed adaptive action to the risks that we can't avoid, the impacts that many parts of Australia are already experiencing.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: The Climate Council says it's terrifying. Would you describe it as terrifying?

JOSH WILSON: Well, everyone can choose their own adjective, I suppose. I think most people in the Australian community understand that as a risk, as a result of climate change, we are facing more frequent and more intense natural disasters. And there are plenty of parts of Australia that have had direct experience from that those instances, by themselves, would have been, would have been terrifying, in many cases, if you're talking about a cyclone or a bushfire or a flood, we have lived with those kinds of things in Australia for a long period of time, but they are going to become more frequent, and they're going to be compounding, cascading and convergent events. That's why we need this piece of analysis. That's why we commissioned the Australian Climate Service to produce the most detailed and comprehensive science backed bit of risk analysis with respect to climate so that we can be galvanized and reinforced in our efforts to mitigate against those impacts by reducing emissions, but also so that we can take smart adaptation action to prevent the harm and cost that would otherwise occur, and certainly that would occur if Australia was to lurch back to a government that thought that climate change wasn't even real.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Sure, but you're in government now. A thumping majority, so you're certainly in charge of the narrative. They're not. And so with a report like this, you have to be ambitious, that you have to be at the upper scale of the emissions you want to reduce. Allegra Spender, who is obviously a very prominent independent who won on the basis of a climate change narrative, says if you're not at the top end of the Climate Change Authority, 65 to 75 per cent of emissions reductions by 2035, you're actually betraying the communities this report talks about. Is that right?

JOSH WILSON: Well, everyone's entitled to their opinion, I think—

PATRICIA KARVELAS: But on the substance of that, if you're not at the top end, that's closer to 75 per cent when you announce your target, then doesn't it show there is a lack of alignment with what this report says?

JOSH WILSON: Well, I think if people want to judge alignment and they want to judge action, they only need to look at what's happened over the last three years. We were elected in 2022 we immediately lifted our emission reduction target by 2030 by more than 60 per cent. So the Morrison government was happy with the 20 per cent reduction on 2005 levels. We said that wasn't good enough. We lifted it from 26 to 43 and we're on track to achieve that, and we've put in place the policies to get us there, including a target of 82 per cent renewables. We've already increased renewable energy by more than 40 per cent and we've put a whole series of programs in place to back up that ambition that we first set barely three years ago. Now we will take the next step. Now we will take the next step this—

PATRICIA KARVELAS: How much does this report, sorry, just in terms of you know, really alarming findings in this report, everyone agrees there. How much does it establish the sense of urgency of ambition around your announcement later this week?

JOSH WILSON: Well, I think the ambition is already present in everything that the government has done over the last three years, we've made significant progress. We've got to stay on that path. That's what the Australian community voted for in 2022 and even more strongly endorsed recently. They want to see ambition, but then they want to see action and practical achievement to reset ambition above that. We will do that in the form of our 2035 target, through a proper process. We restored the Climate Change Authority to its proper place in this process, they will give their advice. They have provided their advice to Minister Bowen on Friday afternoon, and Minister Bowen will then take what will be Australia's 2035, target through a proper cabinet process. But that's in keeping with everything that we've done to date. We commissioned this report because we know the risks are real. We know that having this kind of science backed detailed information will gather, galvanize further action on the emission reduction side of things, but also make sure that we can take adaptation action to be more resilient to avoid—

PATRICIA KARVELAS: But just to be clear, do you commission the report to show the public what the case is, or does it inform government decision making about ambition?

JOSH WILSON: Of course, it informs government, and not just the Commonwealth, it will inform state and territories. It will inform the private sector, community organisations and households. And when we talk about adaptation, that will be a task or a mindset that will need to be part of the way that we look at everything we do. And it is important for people in the community to understand that taking smart adaptation action in many cases will simply mean doing things that we would otherwise do in a more sensible way. When we build a piece of infrastructure for the first time, we will do it informed by the science so that it's more resilient to some of the things that we can't avoid— the work that Minister Bowen and I are doing with respect to upgrading the energy performance of social housing dwellings. I mean primarily that is to make those dwellings more liveable, to lift them to the kind of standard that all Australians should be able to expect, and to bring down energy costs. But of course, it makes them better adapted to those changes. So that's that these two new resources, the climate risk assessment and the adaptation plan are not the beginning of our work. We started that on day one. We started that when we legislated net zero by 2050 and funded the Rewiring Australia Program and reformed the Safeguard Mechanism and introduced the Capacity Investment Scheme and all of those other things. But we also knew that Australia should have a really really high-quality national climate risk assessment to help galvanize further action and to help inform and sustain the adaptation work that every part of our community will need to need to undertake.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Climate Change has to be a global project, for obvious reasons. It doesn't know any borders or boundaries. But given the United States has withdrawn from the Paris Agreement—will the Prime Minister, or should the Prime Minister use the opportunity of meeting with him, if he does next week, to raise this issue given this report and its findings?

JOSH WILSON: Well, I’m not going to give the Prime Minister advice on your program. I'm sure the Prime Minister will raise a whole range of matters with the President of the United States, just as he does with leaders of other countries in all of those engagements. I mean, I was at the CoP in Azerbaijan in Baku last year at which point the shift by the current American administration was noted, and at the time there were people who in the business community in the United States who said that the momentum for the energy transition and for decarbonisation had such a strong economic base case that there the changes that are occurring, that will need to occur, still have a fair bit of oomph behind them, but also making the point that there's no single country that can or should dictate the way that we all work cooperatively on challenges that can only be solved cooperatively. That's something that obviously we will continue to put our shoulder to here in Australia and in through all our regional and global engagements.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Lots of the climate groups, prominent figures, the Greens, others say, unless you put a stop to new coal and gas, you're not taking seriously the very disturbing and chilling findings in this report, don't they have a point? I mean, if you're going to publish a report like this, which is so alarming but you're still opening new gas projects particularly and that's your strategy, there is an incoherence there. Isn't there?

JOSH WILSON: The main thing in the task is to stick to the target, the global target, of delivering on net zero by 2050. That's how the Paris Climate Agreement works. And if we're able to get to that point then we have the best opportunity of keeping global warming to the safest possible levels. Now we are absolutely committed to that. As I've said, we've already significantly improved our emissions reduction ambition. We'll continue to do that. More importantly, we've taken all the practical steps to achieve that, and that is going to be in Australia's long term benefit as well, because renewable energy is the cheapest form of new generation and because our comparative advantages allow us to not only be a renewable energy superpower, but also a clean industry powerhouse in future, with green metals and low carbon liquid fuels and green hydrogen and other kinds of zero emission or very, very low emission industrial outcome. So we see that very clearly. We know that that's what the Australian community expects, we know that that's the best contribution we can make regionally and globally. But we've been on that path for just a little bit more than three years. We've made remarkable progress, but it's going to take a sustained effort and I'm pretty confident that it's an effort that the Australian community will back in.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Thank you so much for joining us.

JOSH WILSON: Thanks Patricia.